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200NL: KQs Line Check BvB 200NL: KQs Line Check BvB

02-01-2009 , 12:07 AM
Villain is 24/21/5.7 w 3b% 5

Villain is a winning TAG at this level, and I have been exploiting his Fold BB to Steal (79%) very hard this session. I have opened my sb almost every time its folded around to us.

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HAND #1
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Poker Stars, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

BTN: $27.40 (13.7 bb)
Hero (SB): $363.25 (181.6 bb)
BB: $824.84 (412.4 bb)
CO: $134 (67 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with K Q
2 folds, Hero raises to $6, BB calls $4

Flop: ($12) 8 8 Q (2 players)
Hero bets $8, BB calls $8

Turn: ($28) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $22, Hero calls $22

River: ($72) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $55, BB raises to $165, Hero folds

Results:
Spoiler:
$182 pot ($2 rake)
BB mucked and won $180 ($89 net)


We are pretty deep, so I checked the turn for pot control, and to allow his floats (he must be sick of me picking on his blind) to play back at me. I value bet the river to get calls from PP <Q and worse Queens, as its pretty impossible for him to have AQ (he would have 3b for sure).

Love it?/Hate it?
02-01-2009 , 12:17 AM
let him value betting himself, why do you take an action that induces bluffs?
02-01-2009 , 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by prnd
let him value betting himself, why do you take an action that induces bluffs?
Because I am fairly certain that he will not value bet any Q or PP after I c/c the turn. If I check the river it would be in the hope of having him bet his air to bluff catch.

Basically I think he calls the $55 on the river with all the hands he would bet for value, plus some bluff catchers he would NOT bet himself.
02-01-2009 , 12:58 AM
This is ******ed. If you're going to take this line, which relies on him floating flop and betting turn/river, why oh why would you ever bet the river?? I don't mind the idea of this line so much but dear god you have to check/call the river or this is just ******ed.

As you have played this hand what exactly do you think the river bet accomplishes?

SUMMARY: yes, I hate it as played.
02-01-2009 , 01:01 AM
This is prolly gonna be disagreed with, but I just rly hate bet-folding on the river. IMO if you're willing to bet-fold the river, then I think you should just check-call.... your hand does have showdown value cuz you'll get value from hands like 99/TT. He could even have air here tbh, looked like you had nadda.
02-01-2009 , 02:16 AM
terrible. i cant explain in words how horrible that river bet was given the turn action. it looks like your bluffing. now you have to wonder whether hes raising for value or fold equity. good luck figuring that out.

bet the turn or checkraise it. you can save yourself money by doing this, trust me.
02-01-2009 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xTotaLxManiaCx
terrible. i cant explain in words how horrible that river bet was given the turn action. it looks like your bluffing. now you have to wonder whether hes raising for value or fold equity. good luck figuring that out.

bet the turn or checkraise it. you can save yourself money by doing this, trust me.
I can see bet/folding the turn, but c/r the turn can't ever be right. I just fold all the hands I am ahead of and dump money to hands I am behind.
02-01-2009 , 02:49 PM
I think turn c/c is fine, but I agree a c/c on the river is much better than betting here. The fact that you've been bullying him makes him more prone to bluff raise you here.
02-01-2009 , 04:43 PM
I'd c/c the river as well. B/f river seems like the worst option imo. Either bet/call since it'll look like you're b/f'ing or just c/c and pick off bluffs from floats.
02-01-2009 , 06:03 PM
when you checked the turn i was like wow, not bad

but then you led the river and i was like jesus christ
02-01-2009 , 08:49 PM
bet/bet/bet and fold to a raise on the turn or river.

Once you chose this line (ok sometimes), obviously check the river.
02-01-2009 , 10:28 PM
yea id bet all streets...if i made riv bet i wouldnt be folding to rr.
02-01-2009 , 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpanko
I'd c/c the river as well. B/f river seems like the worst option imo. Either bet/call since it'll look like you're b/f'ing or just c/c and pick off bluffs from floats.
obviously it's a safe option to agree with shpanko, but THIS^.

b/c is sexy if you bet to induce a move from his floats, but c/c is so standard. b/f is pretty ugh imo.
02-01-2009 , 11:33 PM
b/c sounds sexy, but in reality people usually don't have the balls to raise this river as a bluff even after Hero took such a goofy line. If he floated flop, and tried to take it away on the turn but we stuck around he isn't gonna put in a half stack on the river as a last desperate attempt nearly often enough for us to bet/call.

Just check if you got here like that. But I much prefer just bet/bet/bet.

      
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