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200NL: how many barrels vs. a fish? 200NL: how many barrels vs. a fish?

06-28-2010 , 09:41 PM
I just got at the table. Villain is running at 43/3/1. Nothing has stood out to me to make me think that he's anything other than a run of the mill fish.

Full Tilt Poker $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP: $410.40
CO: $188.30
BTN: $357.45
SB: $200.00
BB: $27.35
Hero (UTG): $203.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is UTG with J A
Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, CO calls $8, 3 folds

Flop: ($19.00) T 8 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $12, CO calls $12

Turn: ($43.00) Q (2 players)

Not a great flop to c-bet, but I think that with the nut BDFD and overcards, a c-bet can't be that bad. Also, villain is capable of calling with so much junk preflop that I think I get a lot of folds.

Do you guys like a flop c-bet? Or do we just try to get to showdown cheap with our A-high?

When an overcard comes on the turn, do you guys try to represent it? Or do fish not fold pairs often enough to justify a bet in this spot?
06-28-2010 , 09:52 PM
flop cbet depends- does he fold flop alot, or is a WTSD station? Really depends on his post flop tendencies, 40/14 types can go one of two ways. Some fish call like every flop and then fold turn without a hand.

Granted, you just got to the table, so cbet is okay. I'd probably bet smaller on turn (25-30ish) to scare out weak prs, keep worse draws in, and we picked up a ton of equity as well.
06-28-2010 , 10:42 PM
I'm betting regardless.
06-28-2010 , 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poker4life
When an overcard comes on the turn, do you guys try to represent it? Or do fish not fold pairs often enough to justify a bet in this spot?
If you bet turn, I'd think you have to bet river cause now he's never folding any pair + SD which is ~half the deck. Problem being, you only like a K/9/~A/~J and are lost on most others (plus you're OOP)

With no reads, it might be a check to take your equity assuming he checks pair pair+SD... Fish won't usually bluff you off scary boards.
06-29-2010 , 01:36 AM
kinda have to follow through on the turn dont you think> turned an out to the nuts with your overs more than likely being live, on top of all the FE to his hands like 82s or something. what was the river?
06-29-2010 , 01:58 AM
def betting that turn scare card with improved equity and obv barrelling any J, K, A for value, c/f river on the rest
06-29-2010 , 02:04 AM
I think with ur equity you can probably get away with betting and giving up. But, I don't think he's folding the turn enough to bet that turn in general if you don't follow through on the river. That flop texture just has so many pair + gutter combo's.
06-29-2010 , 02:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bung
def betting that turn scare card with improved equity and obv barrelling any J, K, A for value, c/f river on the rest
probably value betting a J is a bad idea
06-29-2010 , 04:59 AM
bet turn....bomb blank rivers or the ones u hit.
06-29-2010 , 05:07 AM
B/f flop and turn, give up on river. Don't 3 barrel fish.
06-29-2010 , 05:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanar
bet turn....bomb blank rivers or the ones u hit.
Does anybody else triple barrel against a fish? My instincts say that it's a bad idea since fish don't like to fold pairs, and he's already called two barrels before this.

What do others think?
06-29-2010 , 07:46 AM
since by barreling the turn u kinda polarize fish's range to good pairs or pairs+SD which are Tx here a lot.
so no, i wouldnt try to barrel him off of that.
your value comes purely from his turn folds and the equity u still have if called.
why ppl try to bluff fish in this spot is beyond my understanding.
06-29-2010 , 10:12 AM
Cbetting the flop is ok in my opinion. On the turn I am giving up since he is a fish and won't bluff you that often.
06-29-2010 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OdiN_TU
since by barreling the turn u kinda polarize fish's range to good pairs or pairs+SD which are Tx here a lot.
so no, i wouldnt try to barrel him off of that.
your value comes purely from his turn folds and the equity u still have if called.
why ppl try to bluff fish in this spot is beyond my understanding.
can you elaborate further on how 'good pairs or pairs+SD' is a polarized range?
06-29-2010 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinLake
can you elaborate further on how 'good pairs or pairs+SD' is a polarized range?
Not the OP, but this doesn't really make sense...

Maybe you could think of it as hands he's never folding on river, and a range that half the deck helps on the river (i.e., has a ton of equity) and you're OOP?
06-29-2010 , 04:25 PM
I would 3 barrel on most river cards, he is gonna have a lot pairs+ draws on the turn. Depending of the fish I would check the flop a large % of the time.
06-29-2010 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisbetom
Not the OP, but this doesn't really make sense...
exactly. It's not polarized at all. It's pretty much the exact opposite of polarize.
06-29-2010 , 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinLake
can you elaborate further on how 'good pairs or pairs+SD' is a polarized range?
hands he's not folding to a riverbet.
i'd pretty much always bet the turn, but i'd never bluff the fish on a river blank.

u can't have it bothways. either he's a fish who is calling you down light or who gives up on a lot of flops and turns. but i think a large & of the time he made up his mind on the turn to make a stand and call u down.
06-29-2010 , 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OdiN_TU
i'd pretty much always bet the turn, but i'd never bluff the fish on a river blank.
Please don't ever do this...
06-29-2010 , 07:13 PM
c/f flop, if he checks it back bet turn
07-01-2010 , 10:13 AM
I think CB on the flop is not so bad but he will call a lot on this bord. The problem on the turn is that it makes some str8dros and is dificlt that a fish will fold 2pair to only one barrel so if u bet the T u have to bet the R. I woul prefer ck T. He will not bet SDV. imo

      
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