Villain seems like a somewhat laggy reg, sees me as very aggro.

I mix it up between calling and raising flop, I decided to call this time cuz he will barrel lots of turn cards (as my percived range are a lot of underpairs), and it's hard for him to continue with most of his range if I check/raise.

I assume check/calling turn is standard.

Do we call river? Just making sure.


iPoker - $2 NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $203.00
CO: $172.22
BTN: $271.61
Hero (INVALID POS): $200.00
SB: $200.00

Hero posts SB $1.00, SB posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) Hero has 4 4

fold, fold, BTN raises to $6.00, Hero calls $5.00, fold

Flop: ($14.00, 2 players) 4 K 2
Hero checks, BTN bets $10.50, Hero calls $10.50

Turn: ($35.00, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BTN bets $30.00, Hero calls $30.00

River: ($95.00, 2 players) Q
Hero checks, BTN bets $68.00

Yes we do

yes because he's vbing worse and if he sees you as aggro then most flush draws are out of your range by the river.

Yes, "we" call the river and lose to ATo with one spade and hate our life.

yesh, shoving would be a bluff and he valuebets worse.

c/r flop for value

hate the preflop call.
c/r flop obv. I'd c/r a bunch here.

So you 3bet all your small PPs?

it's usually 3b or just fold
on the BB it's a lot closer, but folding only loses 0.5bb and calling can possibly lose more

it depends. xD

How does he respond to my 3bets?

If he 4bet-bluffs a lot (probably cause i have been 3betting the **** out of him)
i just 5betjam. If he adjusts correctly by 4betting a wider valuerange i just muck preflop. I also muck if he calls my 3bets a lot giving me headaces postflop.
If he keeps folding to my 3bets or my cbets postflop i keep on 3betting him obv.

no way, i think your losing too much value from him being aggro. iff he really is thattt aggressive its an easy call down, especially the turn and river turning out that way. if youve decided to play it the passive route ithink you should go with it and call a river. a player like this will stay aggressive if good turn/river comes. actually maybe not if hes just a crazy aggro donkey

gotta to call given the line taken

ha ha exactly

And WTF is all this stuff about flatting PF being bad? Sure 3-betting 44 out of the blinds is fine and I do it sometimes but there really isn't anything wrong with flatting here preflop. The only problem is that everyone is so massively unbalanced that they only ever flat 22-99 and therefore can never show up with AJ/KQ/QJ/T9 which makes hand reading too easy for him.

as played it's just not a great spot, but it's still kind of hard to fold. Even though you're only good less than half the time, with the sizing you sort of half to call, even though it looks very much like a value bet.

I'd c/r the flop. Pf goes either way, some people like to 3bet or fold against lp opens and some like to flat. I think it depends on the player/dynamics and how wide your flatting range is oop.

from my DB I'm -1.5bb flatting 22-55 in the SB over 209 hands
if I just folded I would be -0.5bb

209 hands is a micro sample.

You mean per hand? Because if we're talking overall winrates if you just folded you would be -50bb/100? But maybe you mean -1.5bb per hand.

I mean 209 hands isn't that much, maybe you got set over setted once or twice and that explains the whole thing.

Like I said 3-betting is fine but I hardly think calling is terrible.

yeah I said -1.5bb not -1.5bb/100 (it's -150bb/100)
I realize it's a tiny sample, but it also includes calling from sb and getting it 3 way, calling vs. utg raises from nits and stacking them, etc.

if we look at HU pots vs. loose raisers attempting a steal I'd have like 50 hands and no sample whatsoever
but I'd venture to guess that I'd lose more than 0.5bb per hand calling with 22-55 because I'd be grossly leaking a lot of smaller pots, flopping sets and not getting paid
I win less than 30% of pots with 22-55 when I cold-call

but also I think losing 3bb when getting squeezed by the BB is probably going to cost me something like 0.1-0.2bb in the long run

my point is calling with small pps out of the blinds is not automatic profit
however calling them in position is pretty much automatically profitable so we have to make a clear distinction

I'd also like people ITT to check their SB/BB stats with 22-55 when they cold call

Flatting is good if one of the following applies, otherwise it's bad:
-we know that he loves to double/triple barrel so we can trap him postflop
-we have a super bluffy image so we can checkraise when we hit and have him pay off light

As it happens, you're right that there aren't that many strong hands in our range, and it could be that the only strong hands that are in our range for flatting the flop are KQ, KJ, and KTs, so yes, he can just expect to barrel it off profitably as he'll never expect you to slowplay a set here. We just need to know that he's the type to both barrel off and go for 3 streets with a decent K on lots of boards.

That said, if we raise the flop our range doesn't look all that strong either. We can have fd's, backdoor nfd's (diamond or spade), , A2-A5s, rarely a slowplayed AK/AA, and sets. Against this range he should never be folding a K, and he can have a lot of Kx combinations given that he raised from the button. I guess it's a question of how wide he'll be peeling the flop, but given your aggressiveness i could see someone peeling with lots of equity hands that won't have to fold to barrels on lots of cards like pair+bdfd or gs+bdnfd, so I think this is just a c/r. Even if he'll bluff a lot on turns and rivers we get so much more value from playing a huge pot vs. his equity hands than we lose by not having him barrel off with air when we c/r.

we definitely call down here but id definitely raise somewhere

Strange.

This is filtered from when I call a steal with 22-55 from the blinds.



I make on avg 2.8 bb's per hand when I flat with 22-55, so clearly, it's quite profitable.

And yeah, variance yada yada, small sample yada yada. Obviously I'm running hotter than expected, but I still think it's quite profitable to flat.

Thanks, good post and analasys. I do agree it's generally better to c/raise flop (because we rep nothing), I just decided to mix it up a little. But like you said, there are strong arguments for both sides.

have the game gotten tighter since i've been anyway or something? wtf?

I normally fold or 3bet the small pairs here too. Is that graph from the sb, or blinds in general?

If I was OP I'd c/r the flop every time because of my image. If I don't c/r the flop, c/c down is fine/standard. You could also donk a blocking bet type looking bet and call a shove.

it's for both blinds.