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200nl: 2 hands I'm unsure of 200nl: 2 hands I'm unsure of

09-23-2009 , 04:08 AM
Co is 25/21 with 17% 3bet and SB is a 46/24 fishy station

Is river a bet/fold, c/c or c/f? I just felt really awkward with pot size and stacksizes

Poker Stars $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $281.55
BB: $43.00
Hero (UTG): $397.60
MP: $327.30
CO: $429.90
BTN: $39.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is UTG with J K
Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, CO calls $6, 1 fold, SB calls $5, 1 fold

Flop: ($20.00) 4 7 J (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14.00, CO calls $14, SB calls $14

Turn: ($62.00) K (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $48.00, CO calls $48, SB calls $48

River: ($206.00) 6 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $166.00, SB folds, Hero folds

Villain is a 16/15 tag with no real river aggression thus far and btn is 50/8 fish, does someone like this ever bluff here?, pretty sure he wouldnt bet KQ here but what do I know.

I feel weird about this hand given how I play it and then fold river. Should I be raising turn here ever?

Poker Stars $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $105.25
BB: $100.80
UTG: $227.00
Hero (CO): $200.00
BTN: $219.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is CO with Q A
UTG raises to $6, Hero calls $6, BTN calls $6, 2 folds

Flop: ($21.00) 4 Q 9 (3 players)
UTG bets $13.00, Hero calls $13, BTN folds

Turn: ($47.00) 5 (2 players)
UTG bets $36.00, Hero calls $36

River: ($119.00) 9 (2 players)
UTG bets $76.00, Hero folds
09-23-2009 , 04:15 AM
both hands seem fine to me
09-23-2009 , 04:28 AM
both seem pretty std to me too...1st hand i generally dont play kj utg (avoids lots of awkward spots imo) but it looks a fold to me
2nd hand i think a river call is ok as your hand is maybe underrepped a little
09-23-2009 , 04:35 AM
If sb in hand 1 is a stationy fish then I think you're giving up a lot of value by checking. I would bet/fold because I wouldn't expect worse hands to raise and I wouldn't think he'd bluffraise here especially with a fish behind.

I think hand 2 is fine.
09-23-2009 , 05:06 AM
1st one I'd vbet river for sure, on the small side, maybe 1/2 pot or even a little less, and comfortably fold if CO shoves. SB shoving could be a little trickier. As played I'm tempted to call, esp with us having the J. I guess if CO can get to the river with a set he can vbet it, but it seems like he mostly has a flush (A7, T9, 98 etc) or something he decided to bluff with. Problem is there aren't many hands he can get to the river with and want to bluff.

2nd one I think is fine. Raising the turn is turning our hand into a bluff, so unless you think he folds AA/KK very often I don't like it. By the river his range looks pretty strong. Folding here is of course very exploitable but I wouldn't worry about that at all against this guy.
09-23-2009 , 06:16 AM
Thanks guys,

Hand 1 I only raised KJ UTG because of SB, but I don;t normally have it in my opening range, well not offsuit at least. I'm def torn on the river, if the pot somehow was smaller in the same spot I bet/fold all day, but seeing as any reasonable bet would have to be around $120 I kinda pussied out and if I bet something small like 80-100ish I kinda make my hand look like AA/AK/KJ thats looking for thin value against SB's range and open myself up to be exploited by CO.

I don't know if he's capable of pulling the trigger with a bluff 3 way in a big pot with a station having to act after him. I def don't put him on a set or any better hand than me on the turn.

I def might have over thought this one.

Hand 2 i'm kinda glad to hear you guys agreeing with the fold, spots like those I feel obligated to call with how I underrepped my hand, but I just think his bluffing frequency in that spot is marginal and there's nothing he's betting for value thats worse
09-23-2009 , 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandysbich
if I bet something small like 80-100ish I kinda make my hand look like AA/AK/KJ thats looking for thin value against SB's range and open myself up to be exploited by CO.
Why would you ever be worried about being exploitable in this spot by thinking you are inducing a bluffraise from a player not closing the action when you've bet all 3 streets... and not be worried about being exploitable when you fold what is almost certainly the top of your range in the second hand?

FWIW people in this forum worry/post WAY too much about being exploitable. It's almost never something you should be concerned with postflop (pre, maybe, pre is easy enough to figure out that most regs these days have a decent idea of what's going on) in SSNL games. And neither of these hands is an exception.
09-23-2009 , 07:29 AM
I think what is important is the number of hands you have these guys on

For hand 1, i would usually call this, if only because i expect a raise from CO on the turn if he is crushing you (and even then, i might still call with a hand like this)

Hand 2 i would usually fold, however vs many more agressive regs (if you got only a small sample on this) (and i know because this would be a line i would sometimes take myself vs nitty tags) would have air in a fair portion of their range here.
A lot of 2+2'ers see non wet/non hitting boards and go crazy when villain shows a lot of agression, thinking "what could he have!!" and you usually just end up puttin him on a set. If a villain were to do something dodgy like show some CLEAR value raises or value bets on dry boards, then i would be very worried. But 3 streets of agression when his range is extremely narrow is sometimes indicative that he is FOS.
However, on hand 2 10J missed here, and even if i were playing AK SOMETIMES i would take a triple barrel line like this.

Really though, take this with a pinch of salt. Vs an opponent who has stats like this over 400+ hands i would almost always fold. Vs someone with like, 25 VP and high AF i would wager a call here and there.
09-23-2009 , 08:36 AM
Appreciate the effort you guys have put into your replies, thanks
09-23-2009 , 09:46 AM
hand 1) fold pre, the rest looks good

      
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