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140NL pair+str8draw in 3bp IP vs reg 200bb deep 140NL pair+str8draw in 3bp IP vs reg 200bb deep

12-19-2012 , 02:52 PM
(THE MONEY IS SWEDISH SEK, NOT $, THE STAKES EQUALS TO 140NL)
    Boss, $5/$10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #15067821

    Hero (BTN): $1,980 (198 bb)
    SB: $1,501.07 (150.1 bb)
    BB: $3,853.84 (385.4 bb)
    CO: $1,931.25 (193.1 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with 8 6
    CO raises to $35, Hero raises to $130, 2 folds, CO calls $95

    Flop: ($275) 9 6 7 (2 players)
    CO checks, Hero bets $150, CO raises to $390, Hero raises to $1,850 and is all-in, CO calls $1,411.25 and is all-in

    Turn: ($3,877.50) K (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: ($3,877.50) 7 (2 players, 2 are all-in)




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    reg is: 27/19/3,4AF 3b 7,1. f23b 66.(AF OTF 5, OTT 3, OTR 1,) 1.3k hands
    I am 38/31/3,4AF 3b 7,4 61 cb.


    When reg calls PF OOP i put him on 99-JJ sometimes QQ, and AKo, AQs, AJs.

    I dont think he will raise with TT-QQ and if he somehow have a slowplayed KK or AA he is probably not raising them so often as well. So what im up against is 99 and AJss, AQss, KQss and maybe some random overpair and random QTss.

    When going through the hand again it really feels spazzy as im only 40% vs his range if even that. Kind off regret the decision to shove but im not sure if his range is accurate or not.

    Thoughts?
    12-19-2012 , 03:03 PM
    I can imagine that you don't want to stack off 190BB deep on this flop where you could easily be in bad shape against sets and 2pairs.

    I think checking back the flop is a fine play, betfolding sucks with this hand since even if he reaises its possible you're still good. Evaluate the turn, if you improve the hand becomes easier to play. IF you don't you need to make a guess.
    12-19-2012 , 03:19 PM
    do you think he will ever c/r a better hand and then fold to the shove? what are you doing on this flop with A3, TJ, 99, KK, KJo?

    the range you put him on is WAY too small. he folds to 3bets only 66% of the time. his range, this deep especially, will include a lot more T9s, Axs, 66-99, etc.
    12-19-2012 , 04:56 PM
    Check flop back and call turn (raise if you hit). River becomes close if you miss opponent depandent I guess.
    12-19-2012 , 07:38 PM
    Yes i think he will x/r with a better hand and fold to my shove. With TT-QQ, random 9Ts, J9s, he might x/r flop and fold to a shove.
    12-19-2012 , 08:02 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VIVEK15
    Yes i think he will x/r with a better hand and fold to my shove. With TT-QQ, random 9Ts, J9s, he might x/r flop and fold to a shove.
    Why would he c/r QQ-TT, J9, 9T type hands and fold? Im sure those hands would just call. And if he is raising those hands I doubt its as a bluff.
    12-20-2012 , 05:37 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Curtlow
    Why would he c/r QQ-TT, J9, 9T type hands and fold? Im sure those hands would just call. And if he is raising those hands I doubt its as a bluff.
    "I dont think he will raise with TT-QQ and if he somehow have a slowplayed KK or AA he is probably not raising them so often as well."

    thats what i said. but he MIGHT still raise those hands anyway, some ppl do that. And no he would not raise them as a bluff, he raise them because he wants me to fold or call not getting free cards OTT. Many ppl raise in this spot with those hands to "see where they are at" and when I go over the top with my 3b shove they just fold their hands because they know they are beat almost always.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheQuietAnarchist
    do you think he will ever c/r a better hand and then fold to the shove? what are you doing on this flop with A3, TJ, 99, KK, KJo?

    the range you put him on is WAY too small. he folds to 3bets only 66% of the time. his range, this deep especially, will include a lot more T9s, Axs, 66-99, etc.
    with TJss i play it the same. With 99 i play the same. With KK i might call flop and re evaluate turn. With KJo im folding to his raise. With A3ss i might call his raise and i might 3b shove leaning towards 3bet shoving most of the times.

    He folds to 3bets 66% in normal cases, but in this case he is OOP 200bb deep, i think he fold to 3bets much more than that in this case. Therefore i do not include 66-88 in his range and Axs. Isen't being this deep OOP more of a danger when calling OOP 3bets? I think he folds more to 3bets 200bb deep than 100bb deep when OOP?

    Last edited by VIVEK15; 12-20-2012 at 05:44 AM.
    12-20-2012 , 12:04 PM
    much rather call the c/r, we have position after all
    12-20-2012 , 12:44 PM
    I'd prob check bak otf
    12-20-2012 , 01:02 PM
    hate every single action you did in this hand
    as douchy as it sounds lol
    ok but seriously, why are you 3beting pre? even 100bb effective it's a call
    moving on to flop, it's a perfect hand to check back w - we got nice equity behind us, we got a made pair which isnt good enough to vbet but good enough to bluff catch w
    once he raises, why are you shipping? Getting it in vs a flip as a slight favourite/getting it in vs a range that is nicely ahead of you/folding worse hands that are way behind? Besides the deeper you get, the more position matters so just call his raise and go from there.
    12-20-2012 , 01:34 PM
    Check back
    12-20-2012 , 01:38 PM
    I donk think he's c/ring this flop with air on this texture much at all, and a number of his semibluffs have you beaten/drawing for a split pot.

    I think I sigh flat flop or checkback. it's a decent spot to check back your draw if villain is expecting you to cbet them in a 3bet hand all the time.
    12-20-2012 , 03:35 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VIVEK15
    with TJss i play it the same. With 99 i play the same. With KK i might call flop and re evaluate turn. With KJo im folding to his raise. With A3ss i might call his raise and i might 3b shove leaning towards 3bet shoving most of the times.
    if you were playing someone and knew this was how they played, how would you respond as CO?

    Quote:
    He folds to 3bets 66% in normal cases, but in this case he is OOP 200bb deep, i think he fold to 3bets much more than that in this case. Therefore i do not include 66-88 in his range and Axs. Isen't being this deep OOP more of a danger when calling OOP 3bets? I think he folds more to 3bets 200bb deep than 100bb deep when OOP?
    if anything, he should be calling wider, because you are probably 3betting wider, and calling a small, defined range will get him in trouble when the nuts end up not in his range. i'd absolutely expect 66-99 here some of the time and Axs and TJs type hands.
    12-20-2012 , 07:32 PM
    I didnt want to ch back flop because if any spade hit turn and he bets which i think he will almost on any spade turn then i have to fold, and any, J,Q,K,A ott is discusting if he bets.

    As played tho i regret shoving as just calling his raise prob is better

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheQuietAnarchist
    if you were playing someone and knew this was how they played, how would you respond as CO?



    if anything, he should be calling wider, because you are probably 3betting wider, and calling a small, defined range will get him in trouble when the nuts end up not in his range. i'd absolutely expect 66-99 here some of the time and Axs and TJs type hands.

    I would probably be tempted to dbl barrel myself as my calling range OTF is pretty weak. I would also get it in lighter OTF when i get 3bet shoved on.


    Alright, sure he might have those hands some of the times i guess, but then wouldnt i have more of a reason to 3bet pre? If he is calling w 66-99 and Axs and that kind of junk without initiative without position without the card advantage (sometimes card adv sometimes not) and pretty much without skill advantage then i should be printing money in the long run. He will get slaughtered by me, so why does everyone hate the 3bet pre? (It also gives me a great aggro image which i like so i can VB easier)

    Last edited by VIVEK15; 12-20-2012 at 07:38 PM.
    12-20-2012 , 08:43 PM
    betting flop is fine(to tripple quite often) but your sizing is bad
    12-21-2012 , 04:15 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VIVEK15
    I think he folds more to 3bets 200bb deep than 100bb deep when OOP?
    wut

          
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