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0nl triple barrel check 0nl triple barrel check

01-20-2012 , 11:34 AM
early in the session, not many hands on villain but he seemed on the tag reggy side.

i know this is very vague, and doing something like this w/out reads is a bad idea, but still wanted some thoughts.

anyone c/f flop?


Poker Stars, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11659812

BB: $46.30 (46.3 bb)
Hero (UTG): $100 (100 bb)
MP: $101.50 (101.5 bb)
CO: $102.25 (102.3 bb)
BTN: $98.45 (98.5 bb)
SB: $112.75 (112.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9 8
Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, BTN calls $3, 2 folds

Flop: ($7.50) K 7 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, BTN calls $5

Turn: ($17.50) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $11, BTN calls $11

River: ($39.50) A (2 players)
Hero bets $29
01-20-2012 , 01:17 PM
well if you think he's a reg, and he views you as unknown...possibly reggish too? I think he'll respect your UTG raise and cbet enough that you should just stop barreling and c/f turn. The flop cbet is fine.
01-20-2012 , 01:25 PM
When I look at this hand in combination with this board it doesn't scream okay lets triple barrel. On the flop your plan should be to cbet, and then you consider villains tendencies etc on how many cards to double barrel.

On the turn vs an unknown I would only barrel Tx and 6x, maybe Ax and hearts.
01-20-2012 , 01:45 PM
i think if i'm going to c/f turn i should just c/f flop, seeing as he'll most likely peel once with 88+.

he should have more pair combos than Kx combos (i wouldn't expect most to be calling KJo pre, for example) and our bet only has to work ~40% of the time.
01-20-2012 , 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phos77
i think if i'm going to c/f turn i should just c/f flop, seeing as he'll most likely peel once with 88+.

he should have more pair combos than Kx combos (i wouldn't expect most to be calling KJo pre, for example) and our bet only has to work ~40% of the time.
No, you're cbetting to fold all his Ax, all his SCs, pairs under 77 - generally his air without SD value or equity. Since he's button you expect he has a lot of those, and because you're unknown and utg I don't expect him to float air here a lot.

Just because of that doesn't mean he's not gonna call down with mid pair because he's stationy though, or just how many Kx he has...
01-20-2012 , 02:25 PM
I always struggle with what an average reg calls on the turn with in a vacuum here.

What would be your flop and turn continuing range in a vacuum vs hero and what flop and turn continuing range are you giving villain (standard 100nl regular) in a vacuum?
01-20-2012 , 11:35 PM
your sizing is wack i'm not surprised you got called, you don't really rep anything except AK or any ace you doubled (but you didn't bet that big on the turn), or KQ if you are good enough to bet that on this river that sizing (which is probably good), but most regs don't bet KQ, some don't even bet like A5 if they get there and not that sizing either, so yeah i would call you i think if i was paying enough attention

i dont like trying to get regs to fold top pair either unless i have good reads, especially 100nl- guys. assuming your sizing was a bit different, good regs might fold something as strong as KJ here and just say well i dont know this guy and he is tripling so w/e, which is probably correct (although i'm not sure anymore the way todays games play at least on ipoker). however, good regs probably beat out of 100nl so most of the guys that are left cant fold top pair or even TT if they get here. you don't even know if he is a reg also

also i'd rather triple something like QJ/QT/JT that has card removal for Kx/pocket pairs he gets stubborn with
01-21-2012 , 06:30 AM
I'm for c/f flop. He doesn't fold any Kx/77+/any draw/possibly some 7x is peeling at least once. But then again, i'm probably really really mood dependant player so i may end up trippling here wayyy too often.
01-21-2012 , 06:55 AM
I think that vs nl100 reg this turn card is not scary at all and he will peel once again with majority of his continuing range here. Cbet is imo fine (folding some higher Ax hands, small PP-s, some siuted ****) but giving up later is perfectly fine without pot equity and with small fold equity.
but w/e he might view your river bet pretty polarized but fairly strog (22, AK, KK, AA vs missed fd-s) and call with KQ, KJ some of the time...
I guess that some reads or dynamics are needed for this spot to be profitable, in a vacuum i think it's not optimal play vs unkonwn
01-21-2012 , 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobe4funas
I'm for c/f flop. He doesn't fold any Kx/77+/any draw/possibly some 7x is peeling at least once. But then again, i'm probably really really mood dependant player so i may end up trippling here wayyy too often.
Ok to put the c/f thing to an end. I flopzilla'ed this hand, gave villain a 15% range, that includes AK, assuming worst case he doesn't 3bet them, but he 3bets QQ+, we have his range as JJ-22,AKo-ATo,KQo-KJo,QJo,AKs-ATs,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s

50% of the time he flops nothing here (meaning no draws either), so if he's not going to float AT-AQ it's an auto-cbet.

If he floats AJ and AQ, but nothing else of his air range - i.e he folds 98 suites spades etc. which I believe to be correct seeing we're UTG and unknown to him, then he'll fold 30% of the time, and we have 15% equity vs his calling range, so we should still cbet. The flop sizing is too high though, so bet $4, you won't alter the range and you pretty much get the 33% folds you need right there.

Now this is for a conservative 15% calling range, but he could call a lot wider, in which case he misses a lot more. Plus we're unknown and he's not likely to make any moves cbetting should be much better than checking
01-21-2012 , 07:40 AM
Im not a big fan of this, but I do think its a bet 1 or bet 3 situation, or obv check fold flop. Kinda depends on your image and what your history is. As something to do all the time, no I dont like it.

      
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