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100NL: QQ pre-flop 100NL: QQ pre-flop
View Poll Results: Fold/stack off?
Fold - bad possition to 3bet light and looks like a weaker player..
0 0%
Stack off - exploitable to fold QQ in MP when opening an wide range..
18 100.00%

03-25-2010 , 09:00 AM
Villain is 21/9 over 22 hands. No history.
Who folds, who stacks off?

Ongame Network $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $102.50
BB: $77.00
Hero (UTG): $110.00
CO: $116.20
BTN: $100.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with Q Q
Hero raises to $3.50, CO raises to $12, 3 folds, Hero?
03-25-2010 , 09:09 AM
not 4betting, not folding
03-25-2010 , 09:47 AM
I will probably just call too...
03-25-2010 , 09:59 AM
Thanks, i did not consider calling. What does calling acheive though?
03-25-2010 , 10:13 AM
his 3bet range might be much wider than is 5betshove range. Against the 3bet range you are good with QQ (even if you have to play oop). \

On the other hand assuming "normal" 3bet/5bet range from villain I dont think it is bad to 4bet small/call or shove. I do like shoving here because it looks a lot like AK and might induce calls from JJ or TT which makes it a very +EV spot.
03-25-2010 , 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shark_fishin
What does calling acheive though?
It gives us options of c/r'ing good (no A/K) flops and save us from the need to stack against his presumably tight shove-calling range
03-25-2010 , 11:36 AM
22 hands is literally meaningless.
03-25-2010 , 12:02 PM
re-raise/call next hand.
03-25-2010 , 12:09 PM
If these stats had any significance and you were 3 bet from the co, who's 3b range should be pretty tight here against our utg opening range, I would say just call.
03-25-2010 , 12:42 PM
don't flat 3bets OOP, 4bet small call or if you think your doing poorly you can just fold
03-25-2010 , 12:49 PM
5 handed tiny sample size I 4 bet and get this in I guess. If his stats are actually 21/9 he is probably bad and will flat 4 bets as well sometimes
03-25-2010 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrandom
It gives us options of c/r'ing good (no A/K) flops and save us from the need to stack against his presumably tight shove-calling range
I don't think you should necessarily just be c/ring many non A/K flops, that seems to contradict the whole reason you flatted preflop, and now you don't even get value from the AK portion of his range.
03-25-2010 , 12:56 PM
I probably call, but I am pretty sure 4betting/getting it in is +EV so whatever you want, just don't fold.
03-25-2010 , 12:56 PM
3 bet get it in as sample size is pretty much meaningless. If villain was this over a large sample I flat.
03-25-2010 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin8423
I don't think you should necessarily just be c/ring many non A/K flops, that seems to contradict the whole reason you flatted preflop, and now you don't even get value from the AK portion of his range.
Was wondering about his as well. I don't think I like c/ring those boards unless it is a minraise to induce a spaz shove and I know he does stuff like that or that he thinks JJ/TT is the nuts on a low flop, hmm, maybe it's not so bad.
03-25-2010 , 01:01 PM
Generally the reason to c/r a flop would be to represent a wider range consisting of draws on a fairly wet board or something, but with these positions I don't really think you can reasonable represent that and I also don't think his range has enough hands that can jam over your c/r that you are good against (and if it does then you probably can just 4bet preflop).
03-25-2010 , 01:36 PM
Don't worry about being exploitable at ssnl lol. just get it in
03-25-2010 , 02:01 PM
4b >flat >fold
03-25-2010 , 02:10 PM
I see people 3b-stacking off 88-JJ, AQ+ all the time against my UTG opens at ongame 5max. I might have somewhat limited sample but imo people are playing way more aggro preflop on those games than ipoker/entraction 6max.

I agree with 4b > flat > fold

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatWall
Don't worry about being exploitable at ssnl lol. just get it in
Just out of curiosity, what do you mean being exploitable? I mean I don't see any way how always stacking off pre for 110bb with QQ could be exploitable, but on the other hand folding here would be ultra exploitable.

edit:
Oh didn't see the poll at first... If you meant you shouldn't be worried about being exploitable at NL100 (especially against someone who is likely to be a TAGfish), you are absolutely right.
03-25-2010 , 02:15 PM
You'd have to have way more hands on this guy before I'd ever flat or lolfold this.

Chinz, I'm sure that's what he meant.
03-25-2010 , 04:57 PM
I dont think I ever fold here. Calling can be tough as we have to play QQ oop. 4 bet ship is bad because he lose value from 10 10 nd 9 9, and we allow him to play perfectly against us by calling only with hands that beat us AA/kk. 4 bet small and fold to a rr.
03-25-2010 , 05:08 PM
you can't 4b fold QQ for any amount...

you can 4b call though and it's fine.
03-25-2010 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanepoker7
I dont think I ever fold here. Calling can be tough as we have to play QQ oop. 4 bet ship is bad because he lose value from 10 10 nd 9 9, and we allow him to play perfectly against us by calling only with hands that beat us AA/kk. 4 bet small and fold to a rr.
Nobody ever folds JJ or AK preflop at 5max and if they are 3betting TT-99, I don't think they are folding it to a 4bet. It's CO vs BTN so if I'm the villain and I did 3bet with 99 or AQ, I am shoving it every single time over a 4bet (but I am not 21/9, so I am not saying that this villain would do the same)

4bet/folding with any pocket pair (and AK/AQ) is awful play.
03-25-2010 , 06:39 PM
Thanks for replys all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonk
re-raise/call next hand.
BTN has 3bet me once or twice and squeezed me and some other guy's raise.
BB is 26/19 with 3.6% 3bet over 139 hands, no idea what hes doing rly..

Ongame Network $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $288.40
Hero (CO): $203.00
BTN: $289.05
SB: $112.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is CO with Q Q
Hero raises to $6, BTN raises to $19, 1 fold, BB calls $17, Hero?
03-25-2010 , 06:48 PM
I like just shoving it in here.

      
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