villain is 39/12 over 50 hands so not going to place much emphasis on their positional limping %

$0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players

BB: $122.89 (122.9 bb)
MP: $10.33 (10.3 bb)
CO: $57.94 (57.9 bb)
: $91.10 (91.1 bb)
Hero (BTN): $102.18 (102.2 bb)
SB: $63.31 (63.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with A 9
MP calls $1, 2 folds, Hero ?

I think making it 11bb to go is probably fine, but am interested in everyone's thoughts as well.

However, the larger question I want addressed here is how villain's stack size influences our range. I would love for a conversation to develop where we analyze how we decide between raising and limping behind as it relates to stack sizes, reads and the presence of other players in the pot, both those who have already acted and those yet to act.

ty in advance

bump

revised question: What is the worst hand you iso with here?

Why would you iso 11b? Just do a standard 4bb raise.

I'd just make it 5bb with my whole range here. I guess if he was 15-20bb eff limping could be a good option. 25bb+ I would continue iso'ing my whole range.

make it 5x and get it in on any flop, or fold now. If you raise here you can never fold a flop so have it in mind that your getting in 10bb with a9s, which seems fine too me. Obv you can't stand a squeeze though, so i think making it more than 5x is overkill.

If he wants to call half his stack and fold a flop, that is ok with me.

how is 11bb fine?
all you do is forcing yourself to tighten up

5x too big as well, 3x seems optimal

3.15x

4x is my standard but 3-5 is fine. as for the range here, queen jack off and pocket 6s for raising and limping smaller pairs & 78s-j10 off against this stack size. although it depends on how aggressive the blinds are here against limps.

With stack sizes as they are I would just shove into villain if it was BvB but even when they they limp I still think I can gii profitably pre.

I agree that 3x is better than 5x as the effective stacks lessen since it gives us more room to maneuver postflop but think that these stacks may still be too shallow. A 3x open is going to invite the blinds to come along for great odds so now I am thinking limping behind is the best play.

he only has 11 bbs so u shouldnt really be trying to maneuver postflop.

limping with this hand is maybe ok but u have to know how the blinds react to it because it is a really good spot for them to raise with almost anything and even letting them limp here loses u equity compared to a raise. plus a9 plays better with less people in the hand.

A9s is also a drawing hand, no?

If we say that this is his range for limping there wich i think is fair (77-22,ATs-A2s,K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,ATo-A2o,K9o+,QTo+,JTo) we go around 60% eq. I don't think he will fold nothing that he limped with if we make it like std 4x, the pot on the flop will have 9,5 bbs and he will got 6 bbs left. I would make it 4x and bet the 6bbs left on every single flop. If he decide to donkbet flop obvs we continue only on boards that we hit...

not quite. any ace has a fair amount of showdown value against 1 opponent but that goes out the window in a multi way pot. in multi way pots the types of hands u want to play are connected hands that can flop big draws/pair & draws/str8s.

a hand like ace nine is going to end up just with just a pair a majority of the time and against multiple opponents u dont want to be having just one pair type hands. look at a hand like 67 suited and look at all the flops u are going to get draws on and compare it with an the a9. also remember that any str8 u hit with a9 is going to be a 4 card str8 and ur not going to get much value even if u do hit it.

reading this i can see it might sound confusing since u are probably saying its a drawing hand because of being suited and it can flop some big draws but it is not often enough. an a2-a4 hand would be a better candidate for limping because of the ability to flop st8s along with flushes.

If the limper wasn't sitting on 11bb's or whatever this would be a moot point because I wouldn't consider limping w/A9s for the reasons you stated above. But when we raise to 4-5 bbs we pretty much have to call a donk shove, whereas our hand is pretty marginal. Thats why I wanted to know the weakest hand someone is raising here. Thats also why I think limping behind is better here because it gives us the chance to realize our hand's equity with deeper stacks if SB comes along. If I held A9o, for example, this would be an easier iso pre because my hand plays better faster. If I held A5s, this would be an easy iso because the flush and straight possibilities improve my equity on a random flop on which i will either have to call a donk shove or just shove myself. If the limper had a bigger stack and we held A5s, limping behind would be a good play but the better play would still often be to raise imo.