100nl: 77 in a 3bet pot - Small Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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100nl: 77 in a 3bet pot

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08-08-2008 , 08:37 PM

crunchi

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 900

villain is a nitty 16/13, but he had 3bet me 3 times before, all from the sb, so i decide to call.

I figure I'm probably ahead on this flop so i call ( i think this is standard so far)
Really confused on the turn! do i bet for protection/FE or do i check behind and evaluate the river. If we bet, how much?

Party Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $104.45
BB: $100.00
UTG: $64.20
CO: $110.40
Hero (BTN): $139.20

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with 7

2 folds, Hero raises to $3, SB raises to $13, 1 fold, Hero calls $10

Flop: ($27.00) 5

(2 players)
SB bets $18.00, Hero calls $18

Turn: ($63.00) J

(2 players)
SB checks,

08-08-2008 , 09:12 PM

Wynnerbago

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 60

check back, fold to a bet on an A, K, 10 river. I think a huge part of his range here is AK, AJ, 1010, 99. I think with hands other than AK he is likely to peel the turn, prob fold to river bet. I think he will be checking almost all rivers unless he improves, so you get a cheap showdown and you dont lose value betting the turn into a better marginal hand if you plan on shutting down on the river. If you decide to bet turn and he calls I think your best bet is firing river too to push him off his hand.

08-08-2008 , 09:13 PM

Wynnerbago

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 60

any feedback on my advice is very welcome, thanks

08-08-2008 , 09:22 PM

fjbourne

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,386

meh, id probably want a bigger 3bet sample size before id call pre

buuut im a nit

08-08-2008 , 09:23 PM

spivey

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 9,751

fold pf, check turn.

08-08-2008 , 09:31 PM

crunchi

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 900

if we check turn and river is a blank and he bets do we fold or call?

08-08-2008 , 09:35 PM

CastlesMadeASand

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,047

Obv calling preflop is your 1st mistake.

But as played i check back turn and fold to a river bet. He probably isnt going to bluff you because he doesnt expect you to fold after he's been 3betting you so often.

08-08-2008 , 09:50 PM

crunchi

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 900

how is folding PF a mistake? Lets just fold 20 times instead so we can be 100% sure that hes doing this light?

I had a read/feeling that he was 3betting me light and i called in position because i felt my hand > his. I dont see how this is a big mistake...

08-08-2008 , 09:55 PM

jackwilcox

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,843

Quote:

Originally Posted by crunchi

because basically there is very few good flops for u. as shown in ur example.
even a flop with 3 cards lower than a 7 isnt great if u keep getting bet into u will have to consider he has a higher PP.
so ur basically set mining.

08-08-2008 , 10:06 PM

#10

crunchi

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 900

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackwilcox

So whats your plan then? continue folding and get owned IP?

08-08-2008 , 11:09 PM

#11

Kakafoni

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 119

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynnerbago

any feedback on my advice is very welcome, thanks

Going into turn hero has $73 left to play around with. Since even a half pot bet on turn is about $30, there is not enough money left to make a bet that pushes anything off of river.

I would check behind on turn and probably fold to a river bet. For sure fold if a T, K or A comes.

If I bet I would bet half pot and fold to a c/r ai.

08-08-2008 , 11:42 PM

#12

KCrow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,383

I'd fold pre. There's no need to be giving 16/13's action. Let him steal a few opens from you.

As played check turn and fold a river bet. Villain isn't going to be bluffing AK on a blank river enough of the time to make calling profitable.

08-08-2008 , 11:51 PM

#13

Idiotex

adept

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 718

Unless you're a post-flop genius or villain plays atrociously then don't call the 3-bet. If you don't want to get owned by 3-bets start 4-bet bluffing or call with broadway cards and monkey it in when you flops draws or top pair. There isn't much difference between calling with 22 and 77 preflop... Either way you don't know what the **** to do unless you flop a set.

As played check the turn. You don't have enough history too value bet. If he has top pair + he's just sitting there eagerly awaiting to check raise your float all in, trust me.

08-09-2008 , 12:56 AM

#14

fees

LAPT San Jose Winner

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 10,626

Fold fast preflop... i guess peel one and try and show it down now.

08-09-2008 , 01:07 AM

#15

Mothercanuck

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,799

man if he is 3 betting me out of the blinds so much im NEVER folding preflop. Freakin 4 bet! lol

08-09-2008 , 01:17 AM

#16

lledney

adept

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 875

this is intersting. all these posts lately saying you should fold basically anything but premium hands to 3bets even IP. is it ok to call a 3bet from 20/16 IP with 77? there's so much 3betting going on nowadays, where do you make a stand? is it better to start 4betting than calling 3bets, or keep folding? like OP said, you can't wait for aces and fold 20 times to the same guy. whats the point of stealing blinds 35+ if you just gonna fold to all 3bets. personally i think i fold this preflop as well, but i've been getting 3bet a lot lately and thinking about these spots.

08-09-2008 , 01:49 AM

#17

bilbo-san

Angry Hobbit

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 11,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by crunchi

So whats your plan then? continue folding and get owned IP?

Yeah, cause I guy folding 80% of blinds and 3betting you 4% of the time is COMPLETELY OWNING you.

Put your dick back in your pants, leave your ego at the door, profit.

08-09-2008 , 01:49 AM

#18

Skleice

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,277

Quote:

Originally Posted by lledney

Patience Danielson.

Calling w/ this hand sucks because most flops will be very unfavorable and you'll most likely only have 2 cards to improve. Calling w/ a hand that can't flop top pair, a decent draw, or an overpair are much better options...not to mention 4bet bluffing someone who is constantly reraising from the blinds. They're the ones OOP! You can't put a world of hurt on them.

Calling just cuz "my 77 has to be better than this annoying 3bettor's hand" is not going to win you money.

08-09-2008 , 01:50 AM

#19

Skleice

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,277

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilbo-san

Put your dick back in your pants, leave your ego at the door, profit.

lol, I just spit up my beer.

08-09-2008 , 01:54 AM

#20

bilbo-san

Angry Hobbit

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 11,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by lledney

WTF again...

"Make a stand"?

Guy plays 16% of hands!

If you were to open every single button, and fold to EVERY ONE of his 3-bets, you would still win tons of money from this guy.

Call his 3-bets with premiums. Guys like this c-bet too much, so the one pot you call and tarp a c-bet makes up for it.

Lol @ thinking you are getting "run over" by a guy who plays 16% of hands just because he happens to 3bet/fold from the BB.

Then if you play 1000 hands from him and he somehow miraculously is very loose and 3-bet happy from the blinds despite being a 16% vip, then, THEN, start calling and making plays.

08-09-2008 , 01:57 AM

#21

Novles

veteran

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,069

+1 for folding pf. turn is easy check hope for showdown and hope he has AK but hate how you got there.

08-09-2008 , 03:27 AM

#22

crunchi

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 900

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilbo-san

Yeah, cause I guy folding 80% of blinds and 3betting you 4% of the time is COMPLETELY OWNING you.

Put your dick back in your pants, leave your ego at the door, profit.

ummm..... NO! He is 3betting me waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy more than 4%.

08-09-2008 , 03:32 AM

#23

crunchi

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 900

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilbo-san

WTF again...

Call his 3-bets with premiums. Guys like this c-bet too much, so the one pot you call and tarp a c-bet makes up for it.

Like TT+ AQ+?

08-09-2008 , 03:35 AM

#24

spivey

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 9,751

Quote:

Originally Posted by crunchi

ummm..... NO! He is 3betting me waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy more than 4%.

even if he is, you're basing how light he's 3betting you on way too small of a sample. and 77 is a pretty bad hand to make a stand with.

08-09-2008 , 03:37 AM

#25

crunchi

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 900

Quote:

Originally Posted by spivey

even if he is, you're basing how light he's 3betting you on way too small of a sample. and 77 is a pretty bad hand to make a stand with.

Fair enough. I'll concede that the sample is small.

regarding your second point, where do you draw the line with PP's? are you calling 99?

Do you call with KQ? why is it better than 77?

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