100 NL 1010 Pre facing late open + 3bet - Small Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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100 NL 1010 Pre facing late open + 3bet

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06-22-2010 , 06:46 AM

Fantasy89

banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,317

Opener is pretty loose he's running 25/19//39% CO open.

3bettor is decent and had been active lately he is 27/18//11% 3bet

Stats are over like 60 hands

My image is laggy, i was running like 24/22/11%3bet

So I find myself facing a bit of heat oop with a strong hand and am not sure what the best option is. 3bet/Call? Shove? Fold?

Poker Stars $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $104.50
MP: $100.00
CO: $144.10
BTN: $175.95
Hero (SB): $103.65
BB: $225.50

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with T

2 folds, CO raises to $4, BTN raises to $14.50, Hero ?

06-22-2010 , 11:48 AM

Fantasy89

banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,317

bump

06-22-2010 , 12:33 PM

korova

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,346

i havent ran numbers but if hes 3 betting 11-12% in this spot im pretty sure that regardless of his shoving range you show a profit 4 bet calling.

i have done the maths for JJ and he as long as he 3 bets 8% you cannot do worse than breakeven regardless of his shoving range by 4 bet calling.

and considering that he 3 bet so large this weights it more to a 4 bet/call.

06-22-2010 , 12:47 PM

Into2ndWind

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,683

my feeling is that because they are deep, and positions are co vs button, this lends itself to make me think that buttons bluff range is awfully wide. i think shoving is definitely +EV here

06-22-2010 , 12:56 PM

dHazed

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 227

meh...
on a reasonable SS this is a 4b/c any day of the week, but here you have 60 hands, which is just meh...

do you at least have ANY reads on their patterns, specifically 3bet sizes?

06-22-2010 , 01:24 PM

orange

Guest

Posts: n/a

yeah i dont mind jamming.

06-22-2010 , 01:47 PM

Rockka

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,770

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange

yeah i dont mind jamming.

06-22-2010 , 08:42 PM

Fantasy89

banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,317

Quote:

Originally Posted by Into2ndWind

my feeling is that because they are deep, and positions are co vs button, this lends itself to make me think that buttons bluff range is awfully wide. i think shoving is definitely +EV here

This was exactly my thoughts that Co is opening a lot of weak aces, SCs, marginal kings etc and btn will 3bet just as wide.

I went for the jam because I think it looks weakest, cold 4 betting less than all in looks strong as hell. But idk tho, if either 4b/calling or just jamming will be more profitable?

06-22-2010 , 10:12 PM

Rockka

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,770

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedValor

I don't really think it makes a difference unless you're playing aggro and have bluffs included in your cold4bet range here, where a brave AQ, an AK etc will just jam over your 4bet. Assuming you're 4b/calling shove, jam is probably best. Will probably also reduce variance by getting you into less flips since they don't have much invested in the pot so far.

06-23-2010 , 04:58 AM

#10

iopq

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,347

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockka

that's a good point, I never thought of AQ jamming over a 4b, but folding to a 4b shove
I always feel like shoving AK feels "better" than calling a shove with AK because it's like "god damn it it's flipping or behind again" since nobody 5b bluffs Ax

06-24-2010 , 09:36 AM

#11

Rockka

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,770

Quote:

Yea exactly. Like you 3b AK and just get shipped on i'm like mother****. haha. N some people would be like meh I'm never better than flipping so w/e I fold. 5b bluff w/ Axs = yum tho.

06-24-2010 , 09:42 AM

#12

ALJ

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 508

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

i do

I think the problem is that his 3bet is pretty big and we cant really 4b a "good" amount here..

06-24-2010 , 09:49 AM

#13

oh-nahhh

Donking it

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,040

zzzzzzzzz rip it

06-24-2010 , 09:55 AM

#14

oh-nahhh

Donking it

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,040

the guys an 11% 3bet and hes btn vs co. i feel sometimes like i need to tone down my 3betting and my 3bet is like 8 or 9 or something. vs this dude on the button i think this duscussion is more interesting if we have 77

06-24-2010 , 10:16 AM

#15

Fantasy89

banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,317

Okay results I jammed bb tanked and woke up w QQ, whatever nh.

I think given the dynamics of the CO vs BTN tho, I could pick my spots and do this with a wide range + show a profit

06-24-2010 , 10:27 AM

#16

oh-nahhh

Donking it

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,040

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedValor

Okay results I jammed bb tanked and woke up w QQ, whatever nh.

I think given the dynamics of the CO vs BTN tho, I could pick my spots and do this with a wide range + show a profit

dduuuhhhhhhhhhhhh i do this like all the time lol cold 4betting is fun

06-24-2010 , 10:37 AM

#17

Fantasy89

banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,317

I'm kinda new to cash, go easy lol

06-24-2010 , 11:54 AM

#18

Brian J

TOTP Master

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 10,650

Don't be a stat monkey. I fold here a lot. Those stats over 60 hands don't mean much and jamming is adding a fair amount of variance to your game but its definitely not horrible given the spots. Note though, if i have QQ and you jam i am a lot more confident calling than if you 4b to like $34 here, which looks insanely strong. I'd much prefer jamming with reads he is truly a 3b monkey, which you don't have right now.

06-24-2010 , 01:21 PM

#19

serg4cash

centurion

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedValor

Okay results I jammed bb tanked and woke up w QQ, whatever nh.

I think given the dynamics of the CO vs BTN tho, I could pick my spots and do this with a wide range + show a profit

hmmmmmm....

Quote:

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