been playing at the same table for 4-5 hours with 8 of the 9 at the table being the same.

This hand has one early limper, the cutoff limps, and I am on the button with A9s (spades). I limp and the blinds go along. 5 players and the pot is $10 (pre-rake)

Flop is

K 9 2

both blinds and the early limper check (almost all of them have shown little history of checking or c/r'ing top pair over the past 4-5 hours). The cutoff bets the pot, $10. His flop betting had typically been in the 3/4pot to pot sized, so this was normal action for him.

my stack was about $400 and his stack was about $230-$250. He is a solid player and more than capable of leading without having a K. I called with the intent of either pushing him off with a turn raise (or get away if it didn't feel right). We had played several hands in the last couple of rounds together where I had called the flop, raised the turn and eventually shown down a good hand and this guys was somewhat observant.

the other 3 fold (pot is now $27) and the turn comes A making the board:

K92 A

He checks, I bet out $25. He calls.

River is a middle blank, a non- 7 or 8, giving a board of:

K92 A 8

Now he bets out $55 into a $75 pot.

Thoughts? I don't believe that he would call a raise with a worse hand and I put his hand range on 98, KQ, A9, K9, or a set.

i would probably raise a little bit to get some value... my guess is he rivered 2 pair... if he had a set of 2's, he played it really weird... same with ak... so, yep, raise just a bit so he feels obligated to call...

Raise and it's not even close...also, wtf @ the pf limp?! Raise! Use your position.

Call

I believe the question was whether to raise or call amirite?

I guess you wont be very happy if he decides to shove it in for the remaining 150+ here if you raise the river.

u limping the button and not isolating with A9s is just bad....

There was already an early position caller (UTG or UTG+1) who liked to see flops and odds were high one of the blinds was coming along unless I made it like $12 pre-flop.

As for raising, if this

was his hand range, I'm not sure how raising gets me a whole lot - my view of his image of me was that to go this far in the hand, I have something - KQ is folding, sets are calling (and pushing if I didn't put him all in) and there's a good chance he'd lay down smaller two pair.

Believe me, my first thought was to raise, but as I thought back through it and how he thought of me, hand range, 5 hours of past betting patterns, raising looked more and more like a "he'll only call if he's way ahead" proposition.

u want them to call your isolation raise since they probably have a worse hand than A9s and it gives u the initiative+they will probably put u on a better hand than u have and give u credit if u cbet some flops

just call imo. competent players will not call a raise with worse

This is why you raise PF! You're in position with a good hand that can play well heads up vs their range OR multiway.

lol a raise to 12 is completely standard in live 1-2. and 15-17 would be kosher with all the limpers imo

Raise pre.

Fold flop.

As played, flat the river imo. Only K8 (or K7 depending on river card) is calling, and it sounds like all players here are passive enough to play a set this badly.

Folding flop in the limped pot situation is a mistake.

In limped pot vs villain I'm calling flop; folding or checking back turn; calling or betting river.

raise/fold imo. if he has 2 pair here your's is most certainly good. 2 pair's you're losing to are AK (near impossible), A8 (near impossible). And only viable set that he'll limp with is 22.

If you don't raise this river you'll miss out on value from K9, A2, 98....make it a min-raise and he might even look you up with pair of aces.

How does OP lose to A8?

raise to $12-$14 pre, I prob fold the flop unless the CO is stabbing at a lot of flops, and I would expect him to bet less than full pot with <K.

as played i would shove river.

I don't understand that advice at all. I can see maybe advising a small raise if you feel his calling hand range will include enough smaller two pair and possible Ax one-pair hands to get paid off some money (which I didn't), but for the extra ~$160 he had left in his stack, but I didn't feel he was going to call any sort of a substantial raise without a set.

This was a more passive live game than some of the aggressive online games many of you guys are probably used to.

I do agree on the aggressive pre-flop advice though, thanks! If anyone is interested I can post results later after the discussion is through..

I think maybe 4 posters here have ever played 1-2 live at a b&m casino

I've played a fair amount of 1-2 and 2-5 in both clubs and casinos.

raise the flop certianly (this is where lots of money comes from in these games). on the river here raise/fold is almost certainly correct. somewhere around a min raise will probably get you the most value. keep in mind this is a 1/2 live game--------if you dont make a huge raise on the iver here you might get looked up by a bare king..............yes thats right: people in these games are very likely to look for an excuse to call a raise on the river. there is also an almost nonexistent chance that he will 3bet the river without having you beat. i also think you need to reassess the way you look at these games, because when i go play live, even higher than 1/2 i rarely see a player who would fold even 89 on this river for a small raise.

i see you are talking about how he wont pay off an all in without a set, which is probably fairly accurate (i dont think he folds AK either). but on the river you have to remember its almost impossible to have you beat because he has to have A)22 or 99 which he didnt raise PF, led with a big bet in a limped pot, and then chose not to raise the turn with or B)AA, AK, 88 which he didnt raise with pf, and didnt raise the turn with as well. Tbh, i think you have to raise this river almost every time, and if he reraises (which means your beat), tough luck.

Are you kidding? no one EVER folds in these games Have you ever seen anyone laydown anything halfway decent in these games? I have been in similar spots where I've shoved the river w top pair and get looked up by middle pair. No one ever folds in these games. You can probably shove at any point during the hand and your getting called by any semi-decent draw or pair. I stack ppl in live casino games way lighter than I stack ppl online.

And I agree with you 100% on that the games are passive, but they are EXTREMELY stationy. Sure you're opponents will check their strong made hands to the river but that doesn't mean they're going to fold them when you bet. You need to do almost all of the betting in these games (w the exception of the insane aggro monkey live 1/2 or 2/5 player). You definitely need to be shoving A's and 9's and its not even close.

Not that this would play into villains thought process at all but: $30+$50+$110+ river shove ($160)=$340, now its $160 for him to call into a pot of $340, which is 2.125:1. Seems like you're giving him a decent price to call...

Just to verify my claim, next time you flop a set or some hand your playing for stacks no matter what, and your opponent c/c flop, overbet the pot on the turn a little under 2X. I'd say 60% of these players (at 1/2) have zero awareness of the pot size and will call with any hand they would normally c/c two barrels with.

After playing at the table for almost 5 hours, the only pre-flop all-ins were the usual (AA vs KK twice and KK vs QQ once). Any post-flop all-in & calls were strong hands (set vs flush on the flop, straight vs straight, boat vs flush, etc). I don't remember a single time the losing hand wasn't at least a set. The villain in this hand had shown me at least 3 two-pair river laydowns (he was next to me and they were some of those commiserating shows before you fold). I used that later to (what I think) was good effect, but here I wouldn't want to push out 2 pair since he definitely didn't have AK.

This was at the Horseshoe in Hammond IN and has been pretty common table play. I've rarely seen people stack off with one pair or a draw.

At the table, I just called and he showed me a set for the win.

Sounds like the Horseshoe plays a lot more similarly to a $1/2 online game. I guess since my only experience is at the two biggest gambling cities theres more people and consequently a ton of terrible players. I still think you should be raising the river.

hes line looks extremely like he improved to two pair on the river but if he played a set like that it was really well played. I dont think raising the river for value is profitable because no weaker hands will call and only better hands will do it or raise.
Do you think he played a set this way? a hand like JTs and QTs of diamonds is a possibility but would he really bet this hand in a 5way pot?
I would really put him on 89, K9 or a set.