depends on villain's 3betting range, and obv some icm considerations in MTTs

aces are ~2.5% of hands in PLO, so if your opponent 3bets 5% and you have KK to block his non-AA hands... pretty std fold pre as pure setmining OOP is pretty bad even when you have one suit.

And yes, multiways naked overpairs are an easy c/f on the vast majority of flops

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and a beginning (PLO) player. I don't know how posting handhistories works yet, next time I'll post 'normally'. There's a discussion about a seemingly simple hand on a Dutch forum with some good players.

PLO 0,05/0,1 (no stats, no info)

CO minopens, BTN folds, we're in the SB with KsQsQh4c. Should we play this hand (as a beginning player)?

Yes

If villain had potted and is tight, and the flop likely to be HU, not much value

Sorry, forgot to mention that CO is playing 75bb

Expert 1 was saying:

- OOP / bad floppability and playability / bad implied odds / not closing the action / bad relative position

Expert 2 was saying:

- great odds / good floppability / we can outplay the fish

LOL When I read this, I wonder if I really should start playing PLO...

BB is very likely to flat the minraise too, so our implied odds aren't so poor. We can donk or c/r/shove on most flops where we have a FD or an openender. We can donk some too, on J9x flops for example.

PLO 1/2 coach on runitonce says: u dont have the nutflush(draw), u dont know if the fish gonna pay u off when u hit set or straight, and u cant bluff them. Thought u said that on cardrunners too: dont bluff on the micro's?

Guess this is the reason why Im hesitating to play PLO: even the experts dont agree...

Did I suggest bluffing in the previous post?

If you don't think the fish will usually pay you off when you hit something, he can't be called a fish anymore, lol

The fact that experts disagree on spots in PLO goes to show it's largely an unsolved game... which is something we should be excited about

But aren't you always playing a guessing game with ur nonnutflush(-draw) and when donking on J9x? Is the floppability of this hand really so good? And would u advise beginners to pick up donking very quickly?

The main problem probably is that we dont have stats and reads. Its difficult to say how we should play this hand 'in a vacuum' then, I guess.

You have the right attitude about being careful with non-nut draws. That said if your not willing push your equity with OP + 2nd NFD or OP + gutshot vs an extremely wide continuing range, you're leaving money on the table.

The human mind tends to only remember the times when we run into a set or AA+NFD in these spots

Thanks for ur answers, sir. The chances of getting in a single(min)raised hu pot probably arent that big on the micros. :-) And from now on I've got my stats running. Being ultratight in the SB can never be bad, I guess.

I lose lots of money from SB just calling raises too wide and c/f flops.

Being this clear, I would call.

hi GGARL thanks for doing this

would you or anyone mind telling me some basic stats to look at in my omahamanager2? Im playing 30/18 or so with a 9% 3bet which I think is ok?? with regards to w$@sd and w$wsf stats are they similar to nlhe numbers? how about wtsd and and agg% numbers? I Just started playing plo thanks

I'm def the wrong person to ask, haven't played cash no limit since -08 (and I wasn't very good, lol)

your preflop stats look fine/std, but I suggest you post in the stats thread so you can compare with others who play your stakes

Thanks for all the answers above guys/gals. Really helps me to hopefully gain a better PLO mindset.

In this hand villain is a huge fish/callbot - running 98/4 and no fold to cbet. So considering my huge draw im simply betting all streets for value. Or should i checkback and try to realise my equity before betting?

would you mind linking me to the stats thread? I tried to search it couldn't find it.

@hypoethical

flop and turn are fine, but river is a mandatory bluff imo when you're at the bottom of your range with zero showdown value. betting 3 bucks would only have to work 25% or so. You could consider c/c turn too if you think your fold equity is negligible.

@abe

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38...thread-878196/

ty sir

A couple of hands I think I played OK but let me know otherwise

I've been having a lot of these types of hands over the past week and am reluctant to blame it on card distribution

Hand 1





Hand 2







Thanks in advance

both coolers, I think it's actually better to go for max value OTR in hand 2 as villains at micros rarely fold a pocket pair in these spots

More importantly: buy-in for the max

I understand if ur just getting a feel for the game, but micros are a massive rake trap and you need to strive for maximum edge to stand a chance of beating the rake. Buying in short becomes viable at stakes where u can achieve supernova, more or less.

Thanks for the help.

I still find it amazing by how well other people seem to hit flops and draws.

Just played my first live PLO the other day. Stupid question: It is 1/2 with $5 bring-in ($5 minimum to call) $500 max buy-in. Most people buy-in for $200. What would you say this limit is, 1/2, 2/5? I'm not even sure what the big blind and how much 100bbs is, 200 or 500?

Not in love with my turn play, but I felt like I can induce some stupidity from villain by checking. As played - shove river?

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 189.37 BB
BTN: 207.31 BB (VPIP: 30.13, PFR: 19.60, 3Bet Preflop: 8.82, Hands: 1,139)
SB: 135.36 BB (VPIP: 32.83, PFR: 19.59, 3Bet Preflop: 6.38, Hands: 882)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 39.75, PFR: 30.71, 3Bet Preflop: 15.09, Hands: 956)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.44, PFR: 14.60, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 139)
MP: 124.6 BB (VPIP: 27.54, PFR: 19.92, 3Bet Preflop: 6.24, Hands: 3,763)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 4 K A K

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (10 BB, 3 players) 4 2 9
SB checks, Hero bets 6.36 BB, BTN calls 6.36 BB, fold

Turn: (22.72 BB, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, BTN bets 15.23 BB, Hero calls 15.23 BB

River: (53.18 BB, 2 players) A
Hero checks, BTN bets 40.63 BB

@tiltn'noon

Sounds pretty comparable to 1/2 ante tables on Stars in terms of structure... but the level of play is hardly comparable so don't worry about what stakes you should call it.


@ph33rox
c/c turn makes a lot of sense in terms of getting value on this street. That said, both your semibluffs and monsters prefer having the initiative going to the river - both for pressure and max value. This is a GTO point of view, if ur plan is just to exploit villain, c/c is fine

It's a spot where you can safely c/f your airballs (as they don't gain much from developing a protected checking range OOP) and barrel off any reasonable equity imo. This is not to say you should just barrel off all rivers w/o showdown value, but certainly enough of them to make it profitable.

Whether you can jam depends entirely on what Villain is doing with 99xy on the flop. If he slowplays it, raising will be too thin. If he raises it, your specific hand should still have higher EV as a minraise (vs. a reasonably balanced strategy), but if Villain might call with like A9+dd/22xx you can jam.

How much is 100bbs for figuring odds, etc? Is 200 a full stack or a short stack?