Hi all,

At NLHE people talk about 10 bb/hr. being close to the cream of the crop. Is that number the same at PLO (4- or 5-card)? What's considered a good winrate in PLO? In my main PLO game (1-2 5-card, which I count as 2/5 since it's a $5 bring in), I'm at 4.6 bb/hr. over 550 hours with a 51 bb/hr std. dev. and a 54% winrate.

How many hours do you need before having any confidence in you numbers at PLO? Presumably much more than HE, right?

Thanks,
DT

I believe the best quote I heard for this was: If you played 8 hours of live PLO a day, for the rest of your life, it still wouldn't be enough.

I’d say it’s more about the number of hands rather than the number of hours you play. After 250k hands I’d say you got a pretty accurate image of your winrate .

So at a consistent 8 hours a day 5 days a week, that's only 11 years.

Yepp.

At the same time, if you're the same player at hand 1 that you are at hand 250k, then you're probably being really lazy on the study side (not to mention learning nothing from your experience).

You're probably sharper at the end of any 250k hand sample than at the beginning.

Honestly, it's just the old answer: anything above 0 is a "good" winrate. Beating both your opponents and (especially in PLO) rake is no easy feat.

But my impression is that double digit bb/100 winrates in PLO are sustainable with good game selection. High single digits at the very least.

Just keep in mind that it's always going to be heavily dependent on the people you play against. You can only do so much for your winrate unilaterally.

I think it will vary based on buyin considerations and average stack depth. I play in a 1/2 $5 BI $100 - $500 PLO game that will have considerable differences in hourly possibilities than other formats.

I win around 25-30 bb win rate every year live and around 8-15bb win rate online playing on softer sties. I always play at night time hrs until early morning. I will take a day off once in awhile but to beat the variance in plo you need to play a lot of hands and a lot of hrs. Its such a swingy game if you don't want to play every day and take days off i would say play holdem. Its less hrly but its less volatile and easier the beat the variance without having to put in a ton of volume. Even for holdem I won around 15-20bb live and 7-13bb win rate online. Its so boring though playing 15% hands and waiting for a good spot like a nit. I just play holdem if I see a whale playing thats giving a lot of action these days. I am hoping 6+ holdem gets more popular in the states so I can play more live and online. ITs just not very popular yet but a great to play holdem with action like its plo. I will probably transition to that if it gets more popular. I am very interested in knowing win rates for it through heavy volume. I wont be surprised if its more profitable then plo.

?? I am confused on what your winrate is here. Are you saying 25-30 bb per hour?

My win rate at 1-3 PLO live this year is 37.59$/hr so 12.5 BB per hour.

This was my first year playing strictly PLO although I've played it before here and there.

I'm hoping to hit 20BB/hr next year. I know of lots of spots I can improve.

Wow that’s impressive. Sample size? What training materials did/do you use?

I'm not at home. I'd have to check my .xls to be sure.
It's around 500 hrs of 1-3. I also play a ton of .25-.50 PLO home games which I use to "test" strategies out on.

I've not used any training sites other than YouTube and a few books. I do however pur in a ratio of 1:1 training vs play.

IMO the absolute biggest winning play in PLO is of a combination of 3 things.

1. Analyze key hands.
2. Track every detail of each session.
3. Probably the most important. Be 100% honest with yourself in your self analysis.

I know those apply to all poker but I believe more so in PLO as there are so many more spots to be in.

I'll get a list of a couple great videos and books I have at home when I'm back.

Great, thanks! I have Hwang's and the 2+2 book by Jockusch, and currently use Jandez's Mastermind - any others?

Jeff Hwangs book is great.
Also look at Rolf Slotboom.

This is a cool video.
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...CQ-QskBeiyJkhu

Lastly, learn to identify the VIPs, Fish, etc and when they play.
You only need 1 or 2 at the table. Without them you can win but it's so much easier with them.

I've driven 30 minutes to my local casino to just turn around and go home when there is a rough table. Table selection is huge. Degens will degen. Dont play against good players if you dont have to.

Good luck on the tables and keep evaluating and being honest with yourself.

It’s been awhile since I’ve grinded PLO regularly. My best live results were around 10.5 bb / hr at a 1/3 $700 max game back in 2017. This was driven by crazy action, like dudes cold calling 30+ bb 3 bets from the blinds, 7 way raised pots, etc.

Big multi-way pot filled live games are the easiest to worry about. You focus almost purely on the nutted potential of your hand and play accordingly (so a hand like AhKdTd8h could be worth a ram and jam, while mediocre aces may just be worth a limp unless you can get at least 30% of the stack in preflop, and a hand like 7654ds May also just be a limp and fold if you don’t flop monstrous).

Like in fixed limit, your win rate is hugely dependent on preflop in this loose live games. Strong preflop leads to being on the good end of all ins more often than not, which is where the $ is made.


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I played 900 hands in one hour on 4 tables at pokerstars on zoom poker.Played around 45000 in 7 days so its easy to play 200000 hands in month ih you play 4 tables zoom for 10hours a day

OP is obviously talking about live.