5-5 PLO HI

K5dd Q7cc preflop

super loose game, 4-5 players preflop w/ average raise 30 bucks.

i am BB and we have 4 callers then a later raiser to 30. I call, utg +1 calls, all other fold. 3 players. Pot 110.

FLOP

K 5 3 rainbow

I check, utg+1 makes it 110, fold fold fold, and I call.

Turn (pot 330)

J

I check

Utg+1 bets 275.

Ok...now for the history....UTG+1 is SUPER spewey. thinks AK is the nuts, plays a tremendous amounts of hands and is responsible for raising 50 percent of all hands pre-flop. He is the definition of laggy. his stack has ranged from 0 (at least 3 1k rebuys) to 4k. Currently sits with 3900 (with total buy ins at this time of 2500).

I have about 2700. (game plays bigger than 5-5...lots of straddles and like i said, average pre-flop cost is 30).

Anyway....I am sure I'm good here, but after much debate i Fold it face up because i already have a tight table image and want to reinforce that because it has gotten me a couple of bluff wins for ~200-300 pots.

I did not feel comfortable that deep vs super-aggro, knowing that there was no chance of controlling pot size.

So, my question is, is my line of thinking correct that this is always a fold that deep, regardless of weather he has 33 or not (which is what he claimed of course).

And just since it would probably be asked, I check/push on a 5/k turn, ldo

thanks, i look forward to finding out how terrible and weak i play!

If he's barreling the turn a lot with 1 pair (seems like it from your AK comment), and you want to fold here, you basically can't call the flop since so many turn cards are "bad" for you in your mind. You need to fix something here.

Small raise on the flop will give the information to progress that hand.

"things Ak is the nuts here"
Ah right, that's why we fold them two pair.


???????

thats my point guys, i know it was weak...trying to figure out why/how to fix.

good point about raising the flop to see were I stand....in retrospect i would have been fine with a re-raise to 220/fold.

sound better?

The reason i folded when i thought i might be good is because i'm still at the point where lags make me nervous sometimes, i would have needed a couple more re-draws to feel safe here, vs dead to 4 cards if he is already tripped.

site and SN

what did they say when u folded face up?

if someone knows theyre good vs a villain whos aggro and might barrel river a decent amount, folding sounds pretty bad to me.

I mean you know yourself its too weak, its in the thread title. dont need us to tell you?


edit: a raise/fold is probably worse, since ur described villain will most likely call ur raise otf real wide. and now ur gonna fold to a turn bet/river bet anyway. just call turn, or fold flop.

This is completely irrational reasoning for folding. It's not only a weird way to think about poker, but the move actually defeats the purpose of itself - if you're going to fold hands that are (according to your description (I think it's inaccurate to say you're sure of being good but whatever)) certainly ahead, you're taking away the spots to use your easily-bluffable image to your advantage...
It's like if you were fishing, then you catch a fish and throw it back to the lake so that the fish and other fish would think "oh boy we can just eat the bait and he lets us back in"
The fish aren't going to think about it, your move has an expected value of -1*fish

the game is loose in general, lots of retired guys who have no problem dropping multiple buy-ins. This is a couple times a week game, and the fold face up gives me future value in the game for people to try to push me out of pots.

I dont expect to win every pot that i am actually ahead in, some of you guys seem to give the impression that you play jesus poker (or that I should)...i cant. I was happy to lose that pot because it didnt expose bankroll to a hyperaggro fish!

thanks!

should have more hands tonight, and I'll figure out how to use the hand converter.

the hand converter is for online hands. doubt you'll have much luck trying to get it to work for live hands.

don't fold face up. like, pretty much ever. ask yourself why you're doing it? listen to your answer and cut through the bs of 'earn me a tight rep, i'll abuse that later when people try to bluff me.' live players generally aren't gonna bluff you more because you show them that tight laydown. that's because they're live players and generally suck. people do what they want to do. you're showing that hand because you a) want sympathy for being in a tough spot, and b) want to be seen as a hero. a hell of a lot of the mistakes live fish make is doing things for social reasons. it's possible to be a good live player who is still nice and respectable, tho.

don't be a live fish! recommend you read 'elements of poker' by tommy angelo. i first read it like 3 years ago. i've reread it 3 or 4 times since then and i'm just about to start rereading it now after i finished cracked.coms book and rereading 'fooled by randomness'. very good book. all about how to behave in live games. 3 years after first reading, i'm not quite doing everything he says down to a t - i talk a lot about poker at the table and don't always maintain a wall of silence during hands, but if you want to be a big winner in live games, you got to have that live skill of mum poker down pat first.

people who try to play jesus poker end up playing pontius pilate poker. no-one itt is saying they're trying to play jesus poker by not folding your hand. but your own words 'i'm sure i'm good here' contradict your fold. firstly, you can't be sure you're good here, because he is loose enough pre to have all the sets and if you had a good enough line on his tells, bet-sizing or timing to rule out the sets, you wouldn't have posted this thread. so you're not actually sure you're good here. again, if you want to get useful stuff out of this forum, cut through the bs.

you shouldn't have been 'happy to lose that pot'. that is just rationalizing post-hoc. exposing bankroll to a hyperaggro fish? i don't even understand what you mean there. this game is very, very high-variance. you do not (i do not, 99% of the posters in this forum do not) have enough skill to turn down spots you know to be fairly +ev, like this, to smooth out the variance. if you do, your winrate will go down significantly, because this isn't the only spot you're doing it in. with a decrease in winrate comes an apparent increase in variance, so it's defeating the purpose of the fold in the first place. what it actually comes down to is this lagtard fish thinking 'i wanna gamble. gaaaaaaamble! GAMBLE! bet bet. ooh i has cards! ooooooh look pretty flop! BET! BET HAHAHAHA BET! oh wait, what, he folded? heeee heeee heee what a tool can't he see i just want to gamble? better keep this idiot happy, tell him i had a better hand!'

there, rant over. please don't get defensive in response to this post. not singling you out personally but i've been posting here for almost 5 years and i know how people post in general. this isn't me or anyone else trying to attack you or make fun of you or anything. if it seems like people on this forum are unnecessarily harsh in their tone.... they are. but you've come to a public forum for help, so you've got to take the rough with the smooth.

gl!