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Are There Aces On The Button You Don't 3 Bet Are There Aces On The Button You Don't 3 Bet

02-25-2021 , 11:28 PM
I was on the Button in a six hand .05/.10 with Ac Kc Ah 7s. It was raised 3bb by UTG and was called by HJ and CO... So do I 3 bet this? Or just call...
I called and of course the SB and SB called.

The flop came out Qh 7h 4 c
the UTG bets 6bb, HJ and CO fold, I call, SB and BB fold
Turn is 3d UTG bets 13bb . I fold.

So I know beginners get caught up with I have Aces. But on the button is this a 3bet. I know I should call the flop...but the turn I am not sure...so when you aren't sure fold lol

Anyone just curious if this is a 3 bet situation.
Are There Aces On The Button You Don't 3 Bet Quote
02-26-2021 , 03:57 AM
I would raise pre and fold the flop as played.
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02-26-2021 , 03:58 PM
Yes there are, against single raise.

K and Q danglers that are single suited or better are usually 3b though.

You always squeeze.

Fold flop. Play tight multiway.
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02-26-2021 , 04:50 PM
So, just kind of a general follow up to this that I've been wondering about.
I get that utg betting out into 3-5 potential callers should be very strong.
I also get that squeezing should/would have narrowed the field somewhat, though I would honestly expect utg, hj, and cutoff to all call the squeeze - based on what I see alot at my games

Assume this was the case, (blinds folded to the squeeze and the other 3 called) we're looking at heart draws, some middle wraps that flopped a straight draw and sets.
Not really worried about q7 or q4 very often and even 44 or 77 seem unlikely. We're blocking the 7 and have a back door nut flush draw.
Would this still be a fold? I'd feel like I was giving up so easily and then wondering why I bothered to 3bet if I was just going to fold to a 1/2 pot donk while in position on a not terribly scary board. I'd feel almost obligated to peel one card and see if utg is gonna keep applying pressure. Am I terrible?

Or is it really just the added sb and bb potential for check raise is the difference?

I really struggle in this sort of situation and obv not the only one.
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02-26-2021 , 05:17 PM
Two main things come to mind WRT your question(s), viggie:

A lower SPR and fewer opponents will change our decision-making dramatically. (No raise preflop = a higher SPR and more opponents, on average.)

Don't just assume for no reason that nobody's going to fold preflop. They're definitely not folding if they're not given the option, they are folding some amount of the time if they are challenged to (most players, at least), and when they don't fold we are heading to the flop with a stronger range than theirs. There is basically nothing to worry about.
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02-26-2021 , 05:35 PM
I play on Global Poker, and I've been surprised about how many players will fold to a 3-bet after raising or calling a raise. It certainly doesn't happen most of the time, but it happens.
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02-26-2021 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Would this still be a fold? I'd feel like I was giving up so easily and then wondering why I bothered to 3bet if I was just going to fold to a 1/2 pot donk while in position on a not terribly scary board. I'd feel almost obligated to peel one card and see if utg is gonna keep applying pressure. Am I terrible?
I have this exact same feeling. When I 3-bet preflop, I feel like I'm turning my hand over and telling opponent I have AAxx or at the very least four cards T or higher, and this allows my opponent to outplay me on the flop. When all low cards come, or something like a 10 or J and two low cards, I feel lost on how to play.

I think I have too narrow of a 3-betting range, and by expanding it I could create more post-3-bet flop situations where the strength of my hand is not so obvious.
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02-26-2021 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
Don't just assume for no reason that nobody's going to fold preflop. They're definitely not folding if they're not given the option, they are folding some amount of the time if they are challenged to (most players, at least), and when they don't fold we are heading to the flop with a stronger range than theirs. There is basically nothing to worry about.
Yeah I may have exaggerated this a bit. Over/under 1.5 people who will call the raise though, I'm taking the over. 3 way is obv better than 5 way though.


Quote:
I think I have too narrow of a 3-betting range, and by expanding it I could create more post-3-bet flop situations where the strength of my hand is not so obvious.
Pretty sure this the right answer dude. This, plus the general range advantage mentioned earlier that you have by 3 betting hands that are significantly better than the average OPs.
I'm trying to push myself to expand this 3 betting range, especially IP but a lot of times it does feel like we're just inflating the pot for the lucky bingo winner - so I know how you feel.
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02-26-2021 , 06:35 PM
I am play in .05/.10 I don't know if anyone really is putting on a range on my hands
So I don't know if expanded my 3 bet range would even be noticed
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02-26-2021 , 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt_PBA
I am play in .05/.10 I don't know if anyone really is putting on a range on my hands
So I don't know if expanded my 3 bet range would even be noticed
That could be true, but I think expanding my 3-bet range is +EV independent of opponents noticing my particular play. At microstakes I do think there's plenty of players that assume 3-bet = AAxx, so 3-betting non-AAxx hands is a good thing on its own.

I honestly feel more comfortable playing flops with non-AAxx hands after I 3!, simply for the reason that I feel my hand isn't obvious.

(I mentioned this in an earlier thread, but I suspect it might be -EV for me to 3-bet some AAxx hands preflop in situations where it would be +EV for more experienced, competent players to do so. I just feel like I've donked off more stacks than stacking other people with AAxx, and that 3! with AAxx preflop makes me donking off my chips more likely. Unless I can get the effective SPR down to 2 or lower on the flop, I feel like I'm often in "win small pot/lose big pot" territory.)

I play on Global, and the player pool seems somewhat small, as people I keep notes on show up a lot. I assume at least a few keep notes on me as well, and if the note is something along the lines of "only 3-bets AAxx", it feels like a big vulnerability even if it's only a few opponents who do so.
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