Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $0.25(BB) Poker Stars
SB ($25)
BB ($25.07)
UTG ($22.50)
UTG+1 ($25)
Hero ($49.70)
BTN ($25)

Dealt to Hero Q 5 3 A

UTG calls $0.25, fold, Hero raises to $1, fold, fold, BB calls $0.75, UTG calls $0.75

FLOP ($3.10) 8 2 5

BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $1.80, BB raises to $5.50, UTG folds, Hero folds

BB wins $6.40

According to PPT, this hand plays much better in multiway pots than it does heads-up (makes sense, given the ability to make straights/flushes and not being able to make a ton of good pair/2pair hands).

So given this, should we be limping behind here to encourage a 3-4 way pot?

No, UTG has limped so by raising we take the initiative and when he limp calls and we will get the pot heads up often, and he will check/fold when he misses to our cbet most of the time. Other times we can bet, call and raise in position and control the pot size when we have a hand.

Pretty basic stuff really. Same as NLHE.

Fine as played, although check back since it's 3 way might be best depending on other players stats and/or tenancies. Also, you could bet a bit bigger.

Great explanation.

Should we ever be limping behind with other types of hands in this type of scenario?

Not IMO.

Yes IMO.

Lol, +1 for limp or there are some other hands we should limp?



Could you elaborate further?

How about in this spot?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $0.25(BB) Replayer
SB ($33.67)
BB ($26.70)
UTG ($28.44)
UTG+1 ($10)
CO ($25)
Hero ($52.55)

UTG+1 posts $0.25
CO posts $0.25

Dealt to Hero 8 T K 6

UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, Hero calls $0.25, SB calls $0.15, BB checks

FLOP ($1.50) 8 T 4

SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, CO bets $0.50, Hero raises to $2.50, SB calls $2.50, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, CO folds

TURN ($7) 8 T 4 3

SB checks, Hero bets $4.50, SB calls $4.50

RIVER ($16) 8 T 4 3 2

SB bets $7.50, Hero folds

SB wins $15.28

Both blinds are regulars, the limpers are fish.

Yes.

And with this hand you can raise, but you also can limp. Depending of the table.

Okay, so I take it you might want to limp in situations where the blinds 3bet a lot, or where you know the fish is limp-re-raising some, whereas if there are tight players behind and the fish is fit or fold postflop or sometimes limp-folds, then you should iso.

Anything else to add to that?

one more thing: crappy high pairs rely on implied odds and implied odds are determined by spr.

so limping behind with these (from every position but btn) can be good especially if there's fish at the table that will stack off with any flopped set no matter if it's a limped or single raised pot.

AQ35 SS in CO? If you are raising, its only to steal the button and hope to bluff the flop most of the time if they show weakness. The hand itself has very little in itself, and I'd prefer to open-fold depending on the tendecies of the opponents. At button, I might limp in, but playing that at CO might seem a little too loose.

68TK is playable for a limp at the buttom...I'd have bet bigger on the turn, given that our opponent is most likely on the draw given the action so far, and we'd want to charge him the maximum. $4.5 into a $7 pot is too small.

Initiatives aren't as important in PLO as it is in NLH, especially in multiway pots. If we can thin the field and isolate the limper then its great, otherwise the raise sucks. Its hard to thin the field with just a single raise in PLO most of the time.

Interesting that you would fold this pre, not sure about that yet myself.

As for the KT86ds, I was slightly afraid that villain was going to shove the turn with a slowplayed set. I assigned him a range of nut-flush draws, pair+wraps, 2pair+draws and sets for calling the flop, and I was intending to bet-fold the turn.

Given my intention to bet-fold, I thought that it's better to make a smaller bet so that I lose less with my overall bet-folding range when villain does jam, and when villain calls the turn again, his range will be very face up.

Ace rags SS are rarely playable unless cheap at the button, or if we are HU IP so its easier to steal, or at a very loose post flop table. Most of the time, no one would give much action to your nut flush when you are OOP, and when you do hit a FD, you are unlikely to have much along with it. The way most big pots are won with hands like these is when you get strong action, and you chase your draw without odds.

The 2nd hand...if you put your opponent on a slowly played set, you should take the free card and use your position. You'd get paid if you hit your top card, and you might even try and bluff a scare card if he shows weakness on the river. Your check would disguies your top two into a draw, and with position, you could also pick off a bluff cheaply on a brick. Betting 1/2 the pot on such a draw heavy board is asking for trouble. Either bet it properly or check behind, a small bet serves no purpose whatsoever.

I would limp nutty hands that can make top set over middle set and nut flushes, as we dont want blinds to fold out there weakish hands that we might dominate

non nutty hands, like the kt86ds i would raise pre, don't see a whole lot of value in limping and with this sort of hand having the initiative is key

^ I thought that too at first, but I think KT86ds still has value, because we can make straights, 2pair+flushdraws, straight+flushdraws, decent boats, 2nd nut flushes and the occasional nut flush, which are all still quite valuable.

Also, we have position in a limped pot with 2-3 fish, so we will be able to get value from worse when we hit, e.g. a boat, Kh flush, straight, 2pair, etc.

Limping with the first hand is better than limping with the 2nd. I would pot raise both. Initiative may not be as important as it seems in NLHE, but I still feel the hand plays better with you raising rather than limp/calling when BTN ISOs you. Maybe that's just because i don't do that much in my game.

Definitely, definitely not open folding AQ53ds in the CO to a limp Pre. Wtf SSPLO.

I also don't think you can b/f turn in hand two. Would be potting there with my whole range after playing Pre and flop as you did.

On train. Wrote long post on my phone but lost it due tobad connection.

Don't fold hand 1. Limping is fine, I still prefer raise.

Probably pot raise hand 2 Pre. Don't bf turn. Just pot it.

.

Are you guys who suggest limping serious? Limping in 6max PLO is terrible.

Limping in to see if you can hit a flop with your speculative hand is soooo obvious and exploitable to any decent player. Maybe if everyone limps to you on the BTN and you have KK72r I can understand. But IMO limping in the CO is always a bad play. I

If I see a player do it first few hands we play and I don't have stats or reads yet, I will mark him as loose passive until shown otherwise.

Just my 0.02c I suppose. Keep on limpin' if it makes you happy. Try and hit that set over set or flush over flush. It'll happen eventually.

Over my last 100k hands of PLO25 6max, I have only limped in pre due to mis-clicks. I do play mostly PLO20 and 50 Zoom so obv limping in these games is pretty rare, and your chance to steal the blinds goes up, but I still think raise or fold pre is the most +ev strategy.

Over limping is fine in many spots. I wouldn't open limp that often with full stack, but in some dynamics it's a good way to control SPR.

Yeah, but when you don't hit and you decide to bet, the fish will call. If you check, then what was the point of raising in the first place? I'd rather play a hand like JT97 with no suits than KT86 ds because the types of flops you hit with JT97 are more likely to draw action. What straights do you want to make with KT86 that are good against two opponents? Here you made two pair on an VERY drawy board. If you're not betting full pot on the turn, why are you betting at all?

limping is not inherently "terrible in 6max plo"

i guess if you're playing tons of tables it's not really worth the attention you could be spending on bigger pots, but playing few tables and never limping is not optimal imo

I don't tend to (well I don't ever) open limp with anything, but I can see it may have its merits in certain game conditions.

Overlimping is cool though, as people have already said with nut suits and bad high pair hands.

With the two hands in question, I would pot both preflop.

Second hand, the Kxxxds one, you need to pot the turn really.

Quadtwo's mentioned folding, but was saying that hand was ss, but it's double suited, so I don't think many players would advocate an openfold pre.

I am not sure if its me that's mad, or the worldb that has gone crazy....Since when has limping been 'terrible' in PLO? There are so many instances where limping could be way more profitable than hitting the 'pot' button every other hand. Plus it seems when people say 'open' these days, they mean 'open-raising'. What a strange world indeed.

I can see the lure of raising and cbetting any flop, but unless you are up against opponents that does't take any notice, or are too naive to play back with marginal pre and post flop, and will call with marginals and always fold unless they hit big, you might as well as play bingo rather than poker.

BTW, if you know such a table, could you please let me in on the sceret as well...it would be much appreciated. Thanks

I think if this is a consideration it's probable that you're playing too many tables.

'You' as in people in general not you personally.