[converted_hand][hand_history]Merge, $0.02/$0.04 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #12376732

Hero (CO): $4.94 (123.5 bb)
BTN: $3.19 (79.8 bb)
SB: $6.33 (158.3 bb)
BB: $9.42 (235.5 bb)
MP: $4.20 (105 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K J 4 A
MP folds, Hero raises to $0.14, BTN folds, SB calls $0.12, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.42) 3 K J (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.31, SB folds, BB raises to $1.35, [color="grey"]Hero ????


No read on villain. just sat down 3rd hand , my hud says i've played 20 hands with him but i can't remember it.

I hate these situations and every option seems wrong.

Folding seems nitty.
calling feels like the worst option because most turn cards do nothing good for me.
And shoving feels bad too because it's a flip/crushed a lot of the time.

Help me 2+2

And also in what types of situation is this a fist pump, if ever?

Ita a fold, you are up against a set and maybe a set plus flush draw.

Folding is fine, and there is nothing wrong with it if you don't have a reason to believe Villain is likely to put a move on you with a weak draw. Your equity isn't great against sets plus wraps plus NFD. If you think Villain is capable of doing it with weaker hands, then calling is best. It's true that you can be in a tough spot on a lot of rivers, but so will the Villain! When you call your range is relatively wide, and all the cards that look scary to you will look scary to the Villain as well unless they make his hand. And he has to act first. In this situation you should be able to make decent reads based on his action and his betsizing if he does bet.

wtf LOL both the guys above say fold?!?!

how can this not be a fistpump shove with 2 set blockers and a FD out (which makes them more likely to have draws).

at these limits people CR this flop with bare NFD vs a cbet all the time (they dunno how else to play bare NFD oop in this spot). and if you nits are gonna fold up to KJ (and probably bottom set, seeing your reasoning) then i can't see how they aren't making a huge +EV move.

if you're raised by someone who's got position on you and you're deep then it's a different story but folding this to a CR when you have position is a total joke.

trolls itt.
Get it in and fist pump at .02/.04... please

If we shove, he gets 2 cards with 41% equity, assuming a fd+. If we call and shove a blank turn, (which will be ~psb) he gets 1 card and 27% equity. Either way, we are getting allin, so we are losing to the random stupid sets except for our 4 outer, but we deny him his opportunity for 2 cards.

The worst option has to be folding because we likely have the best hand, and he is counting on FE and seeing 2 cards to make his play profitable.

I think that shoving is kinda playing into his hand if we assume he has a draw, which he does most of the time.

Definitely not sure which way is right, but giving a different perspective.

Everyone is right, ITT (even OP).

Against some opps. they can have any set here, and that's the only thing they'll be x/r flop with ... they call pretty much all pairs in the blinds, and their dream is that you stack with top two on boards like this.

Against other opps. their range is really wide, including much worse made hands and not great (re)draws. Ship flop and enjoy moniez.

Against others they'll only be doing this with top set or a really nice draw, so call and ship safe turns (although getting people to fold turn is asking a lot, IMO).

After only a couple of hands with villain it's hard to say which one is best, so fold for low variance 10bb and ship for high variance. It's probably good to look at your metagame for
which one to do, if you're playing a lot of hands and want an image that they'll have to put the money in ... ship it.

I didn't say fold, I said fold or call depending on whether you "have a reason to believe Villain is likely to put a move on you with a weak draw". I guess I should've said I have no idea how these limits play. I don't like shoving though unless you think he can get it in with a worse 2-pair no draw. Against a range of draws+sets it's better to call and use your position IMO.

I'm surprised no one mentioned that hero can potentially avoid spots like this by checking back the flop. With top two and no redraws your hand doesn't really play that well on the turn and river unless you boat or get an unlikely two blanks. This is not a hand that warrants getting a lot of money in at these stakes IMO. While I know a lot of .2/.4 players get it in really light, even and open ender and flush draw are close to even money against our hand. Seems very high variance to just get it in. As the hand was played, I like the earlier post that said flat the c/r and reevaluate on the turn depending on what peels.

Might want to consider being up against a OE straight draw +FD, in which case your slightly behind, and if its a wrap, your in big trouble

Fist pump fold until you figure out how he plays.

Check back this flop lol. No. Just no. Don't check back everything just because someone might CR.

And to people who says call and play position. What position is there with like 1ish psb left? So you call and fold to any club, A, Q, T, 9? Or do you call down? You have 2 set blockers and his range is obviously mostly draws (he checked this vs 4 ppl) so get it in on flop please. Don't give him the chance to CR bare NFD and then you flat and he shoves a 9 on the turn and THEN you fold.

Bet/fold is extremely standard without some very specific read.

B/F and be happy about it without reads. reason: your behind his getting in range by a lot.

There is no FE here when he raises.

this spot is obviously really player dependant.. BUT i believe people dont realize how tight most players get their money in at 4/5 plo. I have the feeling that a lot of the players who comment on these kind of 5 plo spots dont even play 5plo. I play everything between 5 and 50 plo. And 5plo people pretty much only check raise the nuts in a pot like this. Its 70%ish of the time a set and the rest is flush+straight draw. People dont check/raise light at these stakes. These games play really loose passive which means people call very light but raise / C/R pretty much only the nuts or close to the nuts. Trust me at 5plo ur hand is toast vs. his get it in range. Obv. this spot is really villain dependant so he could be a spewmonkey. BUT since u are readless you have to assume he plays like 90% of the other loose passive guys at 5plo. So fold.

Your point?

When did I say anything about FE? I said get it in because he is mostly on draws CR-ing rather than leading this flop (vs 4 people). So getting it in is overall +EV.

I tend to agree with this.

You'll get bluffed occassionally but not enough to worry about it.

about the best we hope to be aganst here is the NFD and that won't happen often enough to justify it at 5PLO.

I folded. Didn't like doing it, so thats why i posted it here, to get opinions.

Thanks for all the replies.

Consider checking back these kinds of flops with ur hand, for pot control & deception.As played folding is fine on flop,hoping to see a bare fd is wishful thinking