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The successful bluff thread The successful bluff thread

06-02-2012 , 04:32 AM
good sir, strategy posts are strategic posts even if you know everything already.

you wanna bet/call that turn vs a nit, did i understand you correctly?

depends on how you play, but i'm hoping that turn card didn't hit your sb open range too hard.
The successful bluff thread Quote
06-02-2012 , 08:16 AM
Yep, this thread is true AIDS - it insprires me to create content to post in it

Villain is one of my fav maniacs whose horrible showdowns include 8533ss that cold-called my 3bet, AK52ds that called my 4bet OOP and then 2 barrels with a bare pair of 5's, button 4bet w/AQ83ds. Due to his high preflop aggression, he c(/f) many unimproving flops, and can make disciplined postflop folds on really wet boards in general.

I l/c pre to see a cheap flop on this aggro table as Villain seems to never fold pre, was going to c/r flop because of the blockers and his overall aggression but I'd agree that leading flop was better as a bluff. This hand is a std str8blocker bluff spot, isn't it?

€0.05/€0.10 Pot-Limit Omaha Hi, 5 players

SB €22.70
BB €33.34
Hero (UTG) €29.49 TT66
CO €13.63
Villain (BTN) €88.35

Hero calls, CO folds, Villain raises to €0.45, 2 folds, Hero calls

Flop (€1.05, 2 players) 874

2 checks

Turn 5

Hero bets €0.75, Villain folds
The successful bluff thread Quote
06-02-2012 , 09:56 AM
RIDon, fine as long as we barrell river if he calls. His range is so J*** and overpair heavy and your donk is repping minimum of two pair strongly.

c00n74, superstandard.

How we like the river sizings on these next two? First villain is 48/19 with ridic high WTSD of 55% but over very small sample.

    On Game, $0.50/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 4 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13041851

    Hero (BB): $88.04 (176.1 bb)
    CO: $47.50 (95 bb)
    BTN: $63.26 (126.5 bb)
    SB: $52.16 (104.3 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 8 T T
    CO folds, BTN raises to $2, SB folds, Hero calls $1.50

    Flop: ($4.50) 2 4 9 (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN bets $2.50, Hero calls $2.50

    Turn: ($9.50) 6 (2 players)
    Hero bets $7, BTN calls $7

    River: ($23.50) K (2 players)
    Hero bets $14, BTN folds




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    Next one is 27/19 tag with WTSD of 25%. (Not c/r flop is a whole gameplan thing, but I know you'll all want to. ) I was wondering whether to c/r shove turn also...

      On Game, $0.50/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13041871

      Hero (SB): $60.03 (120.1 bb)
      MP1: $67.73 (135.5 bb)
      MP2: $24 (48 bb)
      CO: $54.37 (108.7 bb)
      BTN: $47.50 (95 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K A 8 J
      2 folds, CO bets $1.50, BTN folds, Hero raises to $4.50, CO calls $3

      Flop: ($9) 4 9 4 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $6, Hero calls $6

      Turn: ($21) T (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks

      River: ($21) 2 (2 players)
      Hero bets $10, CO folds

      Results: $21 pot ($1.05 rake)
      Final Board: 4 9 4 T 2
      Hero mucked K A 8 J and won $19.95 ($9.45 net)
      CO mucked and lost (-$10.50 net)



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      Last edited by Maffff; 06-02-2012 at 10:06 AM.
      The successful bluff thread Quote
      06-02-2012 , 02:51 PM
      I think I c/c river first hand, he won't fold 2pair+ but will likely checkback 2pair. obv sucks if he spiked a K. This is a pretty ideal flop for c-betting, btw, so u should go for a small c/r with basically ur entire range rather than c/c marginal hands like a weak overpair.

      Second hand I'm def c-betting and going from there, ur line is as full o' **** as can be
      He prob just decided to give up with his airball or low FD
      The successful bluff thread Quote
      06-04-2012 , 03:59 PM
      SB is aggro over the top, his 3bet range from blinds vs me seems very wide, he's had some ds trash on showdown before. It's a bit offtop, but his most famous move at NLHE cash was openshoving 25bb w/AKo from the button But I can't say that he never folds - he often respects my postflop raises.

      I don't have many outs vs better overpairs, so I can't flat. Neither are my blockers good, they only reduce the top wrap probability. Still I think it's a std spot for flop raising because the board is paired and fits my preflop flatting range well. So is the bluffshove here good? Thanks!

      €0.10/0.20 Pot-Limit Omaha Hi, 3 players

      SB €97.46
      BB €27.41
      Hero (BTN) €18.82 JJ37

      Hero raises to €0.7, SB reraises to €2.3, BB folds, Hero calls

      Flop (€4.8, 2 players, stack €16.52) 887

      SB bets €3, Hero raises to €12

      The spoiler contains the result, don't read it before finishing your analysis.
      Spoiler:
      SB reraises to €16.52 all-in, Hero calls

      SB shows TT99

      Turn 8 River 3

      So my bluff was successful in another way: I bluffed with the best hand (the pot odds were slightly against SB as he was a 32/68 underdog according to propokertools.com)!
      The successful bluff thread Quote
      06-04-2012 , 05:11 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by coon74
      SB is aggro over the top, his 3bet range from blinds vs me seems very wide, he's had some ds trash on showdown before. It's a bit offtop, but his most famous move at NLHE cash was openshoving 25bb w/AKo from the button But I can't say that he never folds - he often respects my postflop raises.

      I don't have many outs vs better overpairs, so I can't flat. Neither are my blockers good, they only reduce the top wrap probability. Still I think it's a std spot for flop raising because the board is paired and fits my preflop flatting range well. So is the bluffshove here good? Thanks!

      €0.10/0.20 Pot-Limit Omaha Hi, 3 players

      SB €97.46
      BB €27.41
      Hero (BTN) €18.82 JJ37

      Hero raises to €0.7, SB reraises to €2.3, BB folds, Hero calls

      Flop (€4.8, 2 players, stack €16.52) 887

      SB bets €3, Hero raises to €12

      The spoiler contains the result, don't read it before finishing your analysis.
      Spoiler:
      SB reraises to €16.52 all-in, Hero calls

      SB shows TT99

      Turn 8 River 3

      So my bluff was successful in another way: I bluffed with the best hand (the pot odds were slightly against SB as he was a 32/68 underdog according to propokertools.com)!
      do not compute the sentence: 'bluffing with the best hand'

      also, do not compute why raising to fold out worse with sd value/bluffcatcher = good.

      unless you ninja quadrupled merged your range then in that case wp sir
      The successful bluff thread Quote
      06-04-2012 , 05:57 PM
      How I feel after getting snapped otr

      The successful bluff thread Quote
      06-05-2012 , 03:22 AM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by KelvinKe
      do not compute the sentence: 'bluffing with the best hand'

      also, do not compute why raising to fold out worse with sd value/bluffcatcher = good.

      unless you ninja quadrupled merged your range then in that case wp sir
      It looks like I've read too much Baluga

      Seriously, it's a good spot for merging intuitively imho because QQ-JJ and maybe KK have no SDV when Villain is repping AA-KK, so there are too few hands with medium value and I have to shove them too as flatting would make them too transparent.

      Idk whether this applies to this very Villain (esp transparency issues). I can't estimate the probability of him having an overpair here (but I'm pretty sure he 3bets all AA-QQ pre), and idk whether he'll continue bluffing air ott if flatted, more likely not.

      I'm not sure whether this usage is correct, but in TV commentators' jargon 'I bluffed with the best hand' means 'my bet was a bluff vs the majority of Villain's range but I suddenly ran into the bottom of his calling range, vs which it was a valuebet'.

      My raise is a bluff vs AA-QQ (we have 2 outs vs them) and a valuebet vs str8draws. The situation when a bet has different meanings vs different parts of Villain's range isn't rare in PLO as hand strength is nonlinear here - made hands often play worse vs postflop raises than draws.

      Last edited by coon74; 06-05-2012 at 03:28 AM.
      The successful bluff thread Quote
      06-06-2012 , 09:13 AM
      BTN is the same TAG as BB in my double donk thread, this hand happened few minutes after that.

      Probably calling pre is a spew already, but my biggest doubts are about the flop. Ofc c/r>donk on it as it's very cbettable, and I'd obv fold to his 3bet (most likely KK), and my raggy FD doesn't count otf (it may be helpful ott when a whole stack play decision will be due), but I suppose he's prone to fold (a bare king, AA with no FD, maybe even 2p) to a second barrel so I don't find it a big mistake to c/r air sometimes, though I agree I must have chosen a better draw for that.

      Ott, I get a bunch of str8 outs so I just b/c, I can't get away any more.

      How spewy was my move? With what hands would you bluff c/r on this flop? Thanks in advance!

      €0.10/€0.20 Pot-Limit Omaha Hi, 3 players

      SB €23.63
      Hero (BB) €27.24 A9T6
      BTN €83.30

      BTN raises to €0.5, SB folds, Hero calls

      Flop (€1.1) KQ7

      Hero checks, BTN bets €0.9, Hero raises to €3.8, BTN calls

      Turn (€8.7) 8

      Hero bets €7, BTN folds
      The successful bluff thread Quote
      06-06-2012 , 05:54 PM
      It's fine imo, very close to the top of the range I would c/r semibluff flop to fold to 3bet rather than too weak to bluff w/. For instance I think I'd rather raise your same hand but w/o nut clubs or a hand like 5689 w/ clubs. Your diamonds are worth something in the hand, but it will get you in tricky spots a lot of times being oop in bloated pot if he peels you, and you'll also often be folding away lots of equity if he 3bets flop w/ a hand that has no diamonds.

      Also the TT66 hand is wp except maybe for the preflop limp, but I don't think that exactly qualifies as "successful bluff", it's just standard pick up dead money in tiny pot w/ blockers plus some sd / draw value spot.
      The successful bluff thread Quote
      06-06-2012 , 08:00 PM
      *** bollox titties

        On Game, $0.50/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13110221

        Hero (BTN): $75.30 (150.6 bb)
        SB: $53.90 (107.8 bb)
        BB: $50 (100 bb)
        MP: $47.50 (95 bb)
        CO: $52.97 (105.9 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is BTN with J J 3 3
        MP folds, CO raises to $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, 2 folds

        Flop: ($4) Q 4 7 (2 players)
        CO checks, Hero bets $1.50, CO calls $1.50

        Turn: ($7) 3 (2 players)
        CO checks, Hero bets $3, CO raises to $14, Hero calls $11

        River: ($35) 8 (2 players)
        CO bets $35, Hero folds

        Results: $35 pot ($1.75 rake)
        Final Board: Q 4 7 3 8
        Hero mucked J J 3 3 and lost (-$17 net)
        CO showed 2 K 8 A and won $33.25 ($16.25 net)



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        Last edited by Maffff; 06-06-2012 at 08:09 PM.
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-06-2012 , 09:33 PM
        Co turned balls.
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-07-2012 , 07:01 AM
        Wp by CO except pre. I don't like Maffff's flop sizing (I usually make a bit more than halfpot i.e. $2.50 to show that 'I'm serious'), it kinda shouts a steal and gives CO good odds with 8 'bluff outs' (6's and 5's aren't good bluff outs imho because he must have cbet both wraps and gutshots).

        Also, I don't like the call turn - fold blank rivers line because CO will obv shut down on paired rivers. If CO is expected to bluff 34%+ in this spot, call turn&river, otherwise fold turn.

        P.S./Edit: Thx for reminding me of this CO's line btw, I'm gonna take it as a weapon tonight

        Last edited by coon74; 06-07-2012 at 07:12 AM.
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-07-2012 , 08:02 AM
        Needs more hands of people bluffing w KJ on KJJAA because villain probably doesn't have quads
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-15-2012 , 05:28 PM
        This is a very std blocker bluff or dead money collection vs a LAG (isn't it?), but I've been lacking good material lately so I'm sorry.

        Heads-Up PLO, blinds €0.1/€0.2, eff. stack €13.63

        Hero is BB with JJ45

        BTN raises to €0.4, Hero calls

        Flop (€0.8) KTQ

        2 checks

        Turn 6

        Hero bets €0.6, BTN calls

        River (€2) 6

        Hero bets €1.5, BTN folds
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-15-2012 , 05:52 PM
        The previous bluff was a warm-up before this sicker one. My opp is a tricky 24-y.-o. LAG but otr I still hope that his hand reading skill is not so good cuz I'm repping thin (99/K9/96/94/T87). I want to leave the table due to excess of money in my stack (i.e. bank my winnings) and end my session on a major note...

        €0.25/0.5 PLO, 4 players

        SB €63.6, Hero is BB with 5523 and covers

        2 folds, SB raises to €1.5, Hero calls

        Flop (€3, 2 players) K64

        2 checks

        Turn 9

        SB bets €2, Hero raises to €7.5, SB calls

        River (€18) 8

        SB checks, Hero bets €10, SB folds
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-21-2012 , 06:14 AM
        Villain is a tricky LAG who almost never donkbets flops but I've once seen him donkbet a pairing turn with absolute air (A995as on KT6Kr) after the flop was checked. He has already grasped some understanding of my LAGgy style even though it's our first session so I think he can be trying to pick dead money ott with a pair/draw/air.

        €0.25/0.5 HUPLO, eff. stack €36.50 (73bb)

        Hero is BTN/SB with
        6432

        Hero raises to €1.5, Villain calls

        Flop (€3) Q97

        Villain checks, Hero checks

        Turn 7

        Villain bets €3, Hero raises to €10, Villain folds
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-21-2012 , 01:13 PM
        First one of the three above - solid.
        Second one - Fine again, laggy villains generally don't not c-bet if they've half hit, so his draw he picked up on the turn has almost certainly missed the river. If he'd been loose passive fishy this wouldn't have worked.
        Third one - Board pairing turns great to flip off like this.

        I'd have turn sized a little lower on second and third - but prob just me.
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-21-2012 , 02:42 PM
        Second: flop checkback with wrap???
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-21-2012 , 03:07 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by GoGetaRealJob
        Second: flop checkback with wrap???
        thats bad?
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-21-2012 , 03:09 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by GoGetaRealJob
        Second: flop checkback with wrap???
        The board is quite dry so I'm not afraid to see the turn, instead of taking a small pot right now I check back to realise my equity and induce his turn bluffs that I raise very often. I consciously move most of my aggression frequency to the turn because people expect me less to bluff there and often have not enough equity to call with their draws while they could peel the flop hoping for more implied odds.

        Now check out this weirdo, I was too tired (after browsing 2+2 ) to realise what I was doing, otf I thought like meh, it's a std LAG's cbet and one of my backdoors is nutty, so why not Zoidberg. Once the river paired I repped trips and tbh prayed to poker gods to make him fold.

        €0.10/0.20 PLO, 4 players

        Hero (SB) €16.17 A9Q6
        BB €12.83
        CO €89.81
        BTN €14.24

        CO raises to €0.7, BTN calls, Hero calls, BB folds

        Flop (€2.3, 3 players) T32

        Hero checks, CO bets €1.5, BTN folds, Hero calls

        Turn (€5.3, 2 players) 5

        Hero checks, CO checks

        River 2

        Hero bets €3, CO folds
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-21-2012 , 03:46 PM
        I thought this was kinda cool. Villain 3b ~30%, but had never 5b. I think he has AAxx some ridic % of the time.
        Merge - $1 PL Hi (2 max) - Omaha - 2 players
        Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

        Hero (SB): $397.90
        BB: $773.56

        Hero posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

        Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has J A K 2

        Hero raises to $2.00, BB raises to $6.00, Hero raises to $18.00, BB raises to $54.00, Hero calls $36.00

        Flop: ($108.00, 2 players) 6 K 4
        BB checks, Hero checks

        Turn: ($108.00, 2 players) 5
        BB checks, Hero bets $84.00, BB calls $84.00

        River: ($276.00, 2 players) T
        BB checks, Hero bets $259.90 and is all-in, fold

        Hero wins $275.50
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-21-2012 , 03:58 PM
        I've already said in the HU thread that I'm less inclined to 4bet Axxx (esp. unsuited) light as it lowers the probability of an ace (our bluff out) on the flop. Otherwise wp and impressive.
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-21-2012 , 04:27 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by lucid75
        I thought this was kinda cool. Villain 3b ~30%, but had never 5b. I think he has AAxx some ridic % of the time.
        Merge - $1 PL Hi (2 max) - Omaha - 2 players
        Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

        Hero (SB): $397.90
        BB: $773.56

        Hero posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

        Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has J A K 2

        Hero raises to $2.00, BB raises to $6.00, Hero raises to $18.00, BB raises to $54.00, Hero calls $36.00

        Flop: ($108.00, 2 players) 6 K 4
        BB checks, Hero checks

        Turn: ($108.00, 2 players) 5
        BB checks, Hero bets $84.00, BB calls $84.00

        River: ($276.00, 2 players) T
        BB checks, Hero bets $259.90 and is all-in, fold

        Hero wins $275.50
        just make sure to keep vbetting thinner and thinner and larger and larger, and u can get aaway with it
        The successful bluff thread Quote
        06-21-2012 , 04:41 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by coon74
        The board is quite dry so I'm not afraid to see the turn, instead of taking a small pot right now I check back to realise my equity and induce his turn bluffs that I raise very often. I consciously move most of my aggression frequency to the turn because people expect me less to bluff there and often have not enough equity to call with their draws while they could peel the flop hoping for more implied odds.
        I think ur getting unnecessarily fancy/overthinking here. When he gives up the initiative u should stab/barrel with most of ur range unless he c/r a ton. He'll have no idea about ur strength while his hand looks like a bluff-catcher that can't stand too much heat.

        In the hand in question u have a 12-out wrap which should be at the top of ur stabbing range. Picking up the pot is always a good thing unless u've got a monster on a lockdown board. He can also pick up significant equity OTT, and suddenly ur low wrap isn't doing as well.

        If u wanna wait till turn to rep a trap as ur describing, that works much better when he c-bets. Flat and raise on a blank turn will disguise ur wrap perfectly and look like a set.
        The successful bluff thread Quote

              
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