I absolutely suck at NL, for many reasons. The primary reason is that I haven't got the patience to grind my roll up at NL anymore, and I don't want to deposit enough to have a comfortable roll at 50nl (50BI) (the highest limit I have gotten to). I am a losing player at NL though, no question.

I have been playing PLO over the last few days and I enjoy it, and I'm probably prepared to deposit, AND grind my way up. I also feel like I am intuitively better at PLO (though I accept this means nothing unless I have a large number of results).

Anyway, I kinda have this silly mindset telling me "If you were no good at NL, then you can't really be good at PLO."

I also feel I want to chase my losses at NL.

Some advice would be great.

Many people suck at NL, so there´s no reason to worry. PLO is the perfect game for you if you´re lacking in the patience department. You can be absolutely terrible at NL and still be a winning PLO player if you choose to play stakes/tables you can beat. With that said, you should prepare yourself for some serious swings. Given that you want to make a deposit, I´d strongly suggest that you start out by playing with at least 50 full buy-ins, preferably more, and only move up if you´re winning. Good luck obviously.

if you have discipline issues at NL, then they'll probably occur at PLO as well. you'd be switching your environment but you're still the same person

PLO can be a very swingy game at times, so you need to accept that fact that variance is a very real thing and no matter what you tell yourself, it will show its face at some point, and you will need to be able to handle that without crushing your roll.

Omaha itself is a great game, especially if you've grown tired of NLH. Grinding up the ranks in PLO can be just as challenging as NLH, but at least the game is different, so you shouldn't feel like you're doing the same old thing.

I encourage you to take up the game, it is a great one.

Alarm bell #1. Impatience in poker can be devastating. Poker is about making the right decision. If the right decision on 30 hands in a row is to fold, fold 30 times in a row. If the right decision is to throw your hand away on the river even if you've already put a significant chunk of your stack in the pot but you know you're beat, throw it away. When you get to PLO the cost of impatience is much higher than it is in NL.

Alarm bell #2. Chasing losses is a cardinal sin in poker no matter how you rephrase it or reframe it. As I said above, poker is not about winning and losing. It's about making the right decisions on every hand and then letting the results take care of themselves.

Only if you're willing to follow it.

If you switch to Omaha, I strongly recommend that you start at absolutely the lowest possible stakes with the 50BI bankroll you mentioned above. The swings can be demoralizing. Mistakes are extremely expensive.

Google "how not to suck at pot-limit omaha play to the nuts" for an eight-part series that's great for players considering the switch from Hold'Em to Omaha. I don't know if I'm allowed to post links but there's also a site called Omaha Planet that has some excellent PLO articles.

Bottom line, push winning and losing out of your head, and for the love of Doyle Brunson take chasing losses out of your head, throw it on the ground and fill it with bullets.

Hope this helped.

If you lack patience, do yourself a favour and stay away from PLO.

my point of view is go for plo. but as stated above, first thing you have to do is address the patience issue. you can't really be a winner at poker without from my point of view.

set yourself a goal. start at plo5 and move up only when you beat a limit for x bb/100 on a resonable number of hands (50k+ at a minimum ... plo is swingy).

also, be prepared for variance. it can be exhaust you mentally. without patience, how can you get through it?

Yeah PLO is obscenely bad for people with tilt issues. In fact that's primarily the reason I play it. Tilting fish at PLO seem to be juicier than their NL counterparts.

Hello OP,

I usually play live NL and PLO but have recently transitioned online play. I will say for PLO here are the major things you need to do before even considering PLO v. NLH

1) if one of your leaks in NL is pre-flop hand selection then PLO will be a disaster for you. Most LSPLO players i have played online think most hands are playable when in fact this is furthest from the truth. If you like AT59 one suit is playable then you have a problem. Also, most players in PLO overvalue middle pairs with not suits or SD connectors (44A9..ect). Paitence and finding monster hands to 3b/4b like AKJJdouble suited ect.. is the name of the game.
PRE FLOP HAND SELECTION IS VERY IMPORTANT.

2.) Bart Hanson who has a great service/podcast had a pro PLO grinder on who talked about winning PLO play. There are 3 parts here is a link:http://podbay.fm/show/303710848/e/1291114380
If you can't download go to the itunes store and download deuces plays podcast its episode 99-101
ONCE YOU LISTEN TO HIS ADVICE ON CORRECT PLO you will be more competent than most .05/.10 players online.

3) Be willing to fold QQ/JJ/KK hands when you have terrible hangers or its a leveling war between two other players. Most PLO pre flop and river bets/raises are RARELY BLUFFS and its pretty straight forward. So this goes back to #1 above.

4) Swings are like the others say massive in this game. I played last night on ACR at the .25/.50 and within 3 hours I made around 6BI's because players could not fold overpairs to semi-scary boards or most people like to get the money in with 2nd NFlush or lowerstraight hands.

I read several threads here where guys ran up massive rolls playing PLO online due to mostly luck but those who consistently grind out and produce money in PLO from what I have seen really take away the following:

1) Hand selection
2) NOT SLOWPLAYING when they have a nutty hand b/c each street can make you worse off
3) Position against Calling stations who will call down with 3/4th nuts
4) Tilt factor. You will have times where stupid players will put it all in with an inside and maybe an underpair only to hit which can throw you off and play less favorable starting hands (i guess this applies in NL but suckouts happen more in PLO)

Listen to the podcast's above before depositing, maybe even watch a few hours of .05/.10 vs. 5/10 play to really see the difference in play then start out in 2NL to get your feet wet. GL OP.

Don´t think this is true at all. PLO is way, way better for impatient people than NLHE will ever be.

+1, honestly I think the best advice I can give you is to just quit poker, or at very least abandon idea of being a ginder and making $ at it

What´s up with erybody bitching about games getting tougher and yet treating random poker players on the internet as if they were their best friends who happen to be on the verge of busto? Quit all the "I´m like your best friend so here´s my honest advice" bull****, please. You should be encouraging people, if anything (this aside from the fact that I really believe that PLO is a much better game for impatient people). I´m talking about crashwips and this_passing specifically.

I mean, really?

The one thing to consider whether to play PLO or not is whether he wants to play or not. That´s all. Stop the lecturing bull****, please.

I feel like 2+2 has gone way over the top when if comes to crap like this. This is basically reverse trolling and it should be treated just like trolling itself.

just have a go, see if you think its fun, expect to lose, so play with money you can lose

PLO is way more funtime gambles than NL, and you can go on monster fun upswings where you'll need little patience, or monster downswings where your patience will be tested beyond anything you'll experience in NL.

Honestly, play PLO and your tilt control will HAVE to get better to survive. Its great for building skills for your NL game.

Not sure how tilting is worse in PLO than in Holdem... guess it depends on the type of tilt and duration but in Holdem if I was ever on super tilt I'd sometimes be open jamming pre-flop with 100% of hands. Equity when called being 30% on avg at best. In PLO... well, you at least can't open jam pre. And if your tilting and 3-betting a ton and end up GII pre (or calling off 4bets with any 4 vs percieved AA) then you're really not in that bad shape!

Even if I owned a bar, I wouldn't encourage people to over-drink or advise that drinking on a daily basis was a good idea....

passing and I have never "bitched about games getting tougher," but at least for me, the reality that games are tougher than they used to be is a reason that, if I'm giving the best advice I can, I wouldn't advise anyone who's not already a winning player to play a lot of poker w/ the idea that they can eventually make good $ at it

Also lol at the idea that us discouraging a handful of regfish 2p2 posters from playing is having any type of negative impact on the state of games

There is more severe and sustained downswings as well as ugly ways of losing hands in plo than in nlhe, so if someone is already prone to tilt, the volatility of plo is liable to send them on tilt very frequently.

Also, any half decent poker player knows that when they openjam pre or 4bet something like 28 offsuit they're making a huge mistake, but when you 4bet something like 9642ds in plo, it's not as apparent that you're making a terrible play

Wow! really indeed. So essentially i should of just told op go for it and best of luck tl;dr type MY BAD! I have no idea what you're talking about in your mini rant where I am supposedly trolling op or 'lecturing' him to play PLO or not. If you read the post I simply state what has worked for me, what is different from NLH v PLO (and I totally disagree with you about impatience in PLO being a winning strategy but that's another time) and a podcast that interviewed one of the top HSPLO live players where he talks about the best approach to PLO. The OP can choose to use it or disregard that's his choice.

As for us trying to be bff's with posters here i thought this was a site where we give experiences or look for a bit of help, but in your eyes I guess it looks like those who do that are fake or trolling in some way.

AT95ss (especially to the ace) is a decent hand. How badly are the games you play raked (in bb/100)?

i should of been more clear i meant the Awas not suited. more like the 95

Just play PLO for fun. Wouldn't recommend trying to grind up. The tilt control needed is pretty crazy

start off at a small limit, PLO will improve your NLH game 100%. GL