hello guys,

I've been testing a few sites on numerous stakes from 20plo up to 600 plo.

Admittedly, the sample size isn't huge, but i'm looking for peoples opinions on what is the minimum stake you could be grinding 12 hours a day 5 days a week , in order to make a living.

Of course there is a lot of factors, such as where you live, cost of living, rake back, what sites you can legally play on etc

For arguments sake for a European needing to make 1500 euros a month to cover expenses and pad the roll- would be the demo i am looking at ( similar to my circumstances)

I found that at 20plo, the rake is way too high and even if you were to pump out 14 hour sessions 6 days a week and game select... the rake is just impossible to beat and if you had any positive bb/100, you should probably be playing higher as you posses a skill set that would allow you to make much more, for less work or much much more for the same work!

I found 50plo somewhat similar. The rake is quite high and can get better winrates... the problem with this stake, is there is much more regs and you have much less games to select from.

nothing conclusive as again, i could be playing on much softer or harder sites & my sample size is relatively small.

What are your thoughts on this?

I can tell you what id need: proven winrate at 200PL over 250k hands, 100-200 buyin roll and 1 year living expenses and even then id work part time but im a nit

Given that you know how much money you want/need to make. Why don't you grab a calculator and do the math using bb/100 win rate, hands per hour, etc?

thats extremely cautious, id be happy with half that honestly

choose how much money = living wage
choose how many tables ur playing
choose what stake ur playing

do the math

=profit
= if you are asking this you probably have no chance.


Side note - you will burn yourself out 100% playing 12 hr days if you have not already done and gotten used to that for years. It's not like you can be like ' okay im going to be a poker pro lol' and start putting in 50+ hr weeks staring at your screen

if you play this much and play 6 tables you can make 1500€ even on plo10

This

and

This

find me this guy bruh, I want to work for him

yo guys..... this isn't me trying to start the 5/100 plo beastmode. I'm merely just engaging to see how people fair at these stakes.... like i say im not even calming to be a winner at any stake.... just wondering if anyone has managed to grind out a 20plo positive bb/100 over a large sample & if people who win higher,can beat micros, given the rake..

Don't go all in so to speak on poker. It's a tough way to make a living, the games are tough, the swings hurt, it sucks knowing that even if you play your best you can run like **** and have to worry about how you're going to pay your bills that week. Get a regular job to pay the bills and play poker on the side until you can prove a consistent winrate over a significant sample. Hell, only a short 2ish years ago I was still toiling in the salt mines for the man while I played poker on the side until I had enough of a roll and consistent enough results to commit.

Have you actually calculated any rake in bb/100? Sure it is higher than high stakes PLO or a NL equivalent but the rake is very much beatable at PLO20 for a decent player.

I would guess that at PLO50 you can make a minimum living in a normal priced country, problem as previously discussed will be variance month to month and you will need to have a life roll on the side of your poker roll.

i think half year living expenses is standard.

200 buyin roll sounds good.

proven winrate is key.

No1 mention that having 0BB/100 winrate (let me spell it: ZEROBB/100) is the hardest part? No1? Really?

I wouldn't. I would still be a little nervous with that unless I was absolutely crushing. Compare poker to a normal job. As you get more experienced and better at your job your pay will go up over the years. Your company will kick in money to pay for things like a retirement account, it's not all on you.

I would guesstimate that poker income in general goes down year to year on the average with today's climate so you have to make so much more now than with a regular job. Poker is also a climate with so much unpredictability. What if your countries' laws change and people start getting prosecuted, there could be all kinds of things that happen that are out of our control.

You have to think about the future, not just the next 5 years. I want to have a good retirement, emergency funds for when things go really south, all kinds of safety nets for myself. I would like to make a decent living 10-20 years from now and not have to worry about finances. **** that living paycheck to paycheck style of life.

Playing small-stakes poker for a living does seem like a poor life choice, since most people can find a part-time job giving the same or a higher income at much lower levels of stress.

If you want to see if you can even try to make it, work part-time so you do not have to worry about paying rent, phone bills etc and try to build up a bankroll while you are at it. After you consistantly beat the games at a limit that provides a considerably higher income than a regular job and regular career choices would do long-term, consider going pro.

This is a silly question because hypothetically if you're winning enough at say 25PL to make a living then you'd pretty quickly be moving up to 50PL and so on. Its not like you'd ever be like "alright cool I'm a 25PL grinder now" and do that for years.

It depends the country where you are.

In South America, if you can beat plo50 you are winning more money than most workers.

I am doing it and not only living but saving a lot that I even bought a house.

If you live in Europe or EEUU, then plo50 is meh

If you have to play 12 hours a day poker for living i would kindly recommend you to find regular job. Anyway for a winning player i think plo25 is minimum, plo50 preferably.
Evrn on these stakes you have to be consistent winner in order to play for living.

Alot comes down to expenses yes. I back a few guys between 25-50plo and nl from ''poorer'' European countries and they seem to be able to live off $600-$800/ month.
I have also backed guys lower down at 10plo which just didnt work out.
If you need $1.5k to live as stated. I would say 50plo with very good rakeback deal+ money saved up( 3months min) and that can work.
This is all assuming you actually beat the games for atleast 2bb/100.

are you saying that you bought a house from only playing plo50? lol?

Playing poker for a living today is not the best option anymore...

Yes. Pretty Sick.