Villain is a loose passive fish who's BB 3bet range is unknown, but I assume it's more than AAxx and KKxx only, since she's been dpong it too often to be believable. She wouldn't bet out light (single pairs, bottom 2 and such) postflop, and I haven't known her to bet draws aggressively Oop, even big ones.


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players -

MP: $90.26
Hero (CO): $66.10
BTN: $211.24
SB: $29.75
BB: $70.37
UTG: $50.66

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with 6 Q 8 5
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.60, BTN calls $0.60, 1 fold, BB raises to $2.50, Hero calls $1.90, BTN calls $1.90

Flop: ($7.60) K 3 A (3 players)
BB bets $7, Hero calls $7, BTN folds

Turn: ($21.60) 4 (2 players)
BB bets $21.60, Hero calls $21.60

River: ($64.80) 4 (2 players)
BB bets $20, Hero?

fold flop, fold turn

.

yeh fold b4 river, fold at river

Well what's the point of playing the hand pre if I fold my 2nd nut flush draws?

well since you brought it up - it is a very marginal hand to start with

i just thought you knew this, and you raised pre as more of a steal than for value

I might actually just muck to the 3bet preflop with our bad hand, bad relative position and deep stacks.

I think the flop is more of a fold than the turn, for my reason above. Once we get to the turn heads up though, I don't think we can fold, especially if the read is villain doesn't play draws aggressively. Our flush outs are usually good and we now have our backdoor oesd where most of its outs will have a ton of implied odds.

I'd probably fold this after the 3 bet and even pre depending on the opponent on the button. The hand you have is fairly coordinated but to call a 3 bet it needs to be more coordinated. The Q is killing your hand, if it was a 9 I'd consider calling and definitely calling if the q was a 7 instead. As played, you're only calling with a naked flush draw post flop, which isn't enough equity with the villan's 3 betting range to call the pot bet profitably. Unless your villain is totally incompetent, I would not be calling the flop with your hand.

As played, the river's bet sizing smells weak, but at the same time it seems like a "I want you to raise/call me because I have the nuts" bet. I would call just because of the price.

I think whole hand is played well. If he is loose passive fish Im pretty sure we have good implied odds (does not fold top set even if flush comes), turn im not sure if we get enough of em to make calling ev+ but yeah wp. Im too tired to count now.

Also folding to 3bet pf would be so bad this deep ip lol

fold pre

Come on I want good arguments to fold pre 300bb deep ip (after opening)

If villain outplays you even oop well change table then

I totally agree if it's heads up, obvious snap call. Doesn't the fact it will likely be 3-handed with the button make it pretty sketchy? He'll have position on both of us with deep stacks, and our relative position to the 3-better is really bad with a pretty speculative hand.

I figure I'm probably wrong, I just want to know why.

Sure its not best scenario for us to have button to come along but we are still 250bb deep + have position to fish folding this cant be better than calling.

Preflop call is standard ip, flop call is v bad. As played I would call the turn as I think we have about at least 14-17 clean outs. River is a fold.

I would 4bet preflop to isolate the BB.

Call pre, fold flop, call turn, fold river. DUCY?

I hate this plan. If you are going to fold the 2nd nut flush draw on flop, don't play the hand IMO. would be different if the flop was like 10J2 where I'd be sure I was overflushed if I continued, but this flop I like to draw.

As an aside, the villain definitely can't outplay me Oop, even tough reasonably aggressive postflop. The button is so predictible; I'm not scared.

Personally, I think, given the villain isn't known to play draws aggressively, everything except pre is standard. Even then I'm not folding pre, but that's just me. Turn she still has 40$ behing her 20$ bet so if I called flop it's a mandatory call, IMO.

What I was asking asking was the river spot. Keep in mind she bets 20$ and still has 20$ behind after that, which is very weird considering the size of the pot.


As an aside, she told me she had the K in her hand, so I'm pretty sure she had KKxx or some terrible AK4xx or such backdoor fullhouse hand.

As a side note, villain does not Vbet thin like AKxx or 4xxx, like ever, and I have no idea if she is capable of bet-folding river with the nutflush, but I'm pretty sure she can't and would checkcall.

Normally I would say so, I hate being squeezed too. However, the fact that the BB is squeezing makes it more likely she has a strong hand, she would normally 3bet light only my steals when I was alone. Also she seemed too dumb to make a squeeze play, and neither me or the button are folding to the 3bet pre. I want to crack villains hand 250 BB deep.

Also, the button is really predictible. If he was a winning player capable of torturing me in position, I'd seriously reconsider.

lol

I put him on AKxx prob something like AKQT
I think its a fold on flop, you only have a 2nd nut flush draw .

I was going to say something like this.

The flop peel isn't awesome, as even if you hit you don't have the nuts (and it matters more this deep). Sure, if you are sure he has AA** often you can probably call the flop as long as you can expect to get some value on flush turns (which seem reasonable). Your direct odds need you to hit 33% on the turn (discounting implied odds) whilst you only hit 20% of the time. But as long as you make a few dollars when you hit your flush you can call the flop. If you had backdoor diamonds as well the flop would be a snap call.

On the turn you have direct odds to draw out against AA so you obviously call. On the river you only beat him if he had some kind of rundown or AK** and is turning it into a bluff like this, which is not only unlikely, but also happens way less frequently than the times he has AA** and is value betting, so fold.

Thanks for the reasoned and well argued answer.

Yeah, the flop peel is marginal, but then again, I firmly put her value range on Top2+, and considering she's a loose passive fish by nature, I am certain she would pay off at least one big bet to a flush card, especially Oop.

Your river reasoning is pretty much what I tought. I ended up folding after using almost all of my timebank.

my point is if you're asking 2p2 how to play a hand IP deep against a fish you're going to have a much better winrate playing premium hands. I'm not saying a raise is awful just tighten up a bit PF. Plus Q865ds does not play well deep at all. It's very hard to make the nuts with your hand, I mean how thrilled are you going to be sticking 250BB in with a q hi flush or a second nut straight? This hand plays much better shortstacked where you can stick it in with a pair+fd, 2pair, or some other combo.

You don't have a good read on the fish. I'm guessing you dont have a HUD. Unless you hate money, why the f are you screwing around here? Either fold flop or raise/fold flop (if you feel like gambling) depending on your reads. Calling is just gonna put you in a bad situation unless you hit your flush, as you can see. he could easiy have KKxxcc and have you drawing almost dead.

btw this guy's been grinding micros for 2 years must be doing something wrong.

I meant just fold the CO. Obv once you raise a fold IP against a fish is terrible.

This isn't necessary.