Say on the turn hero has two flush draws but both are non nut flush draws and checks and villain bets.

I often see players say something like i would just call, since both our flush draws are not drawing to the nuts.

Then someone will reply..

The fact the both our flushes are non nut is the very reason to check/shove.


Just wondering if someone can explain this as i don't get why shoving is a better option then calling with none nut hands?

The reason you would check/shove a double fd on the turn is because we often have a lot of fold equity depending on the board and villain's range. The fold equity we have makes up for the lack of equity we have against higher flush draws.

Non nut FD's can have lots of equity (be it fold eq and actual eq) but have low visibility... that is, you can hit your flush OTR but not know whether you have the best hand or not. Particularly when OOP you then find yourself in river spots where you don't know if you should value bet, x/c or x/f and often you might end up making a mistake (ie. x/c when behind yet it goes x/x when you have the best hand but could have got value with a bet)

I have converted your op to make it a bit less ******ed.
The answer is no, (it is more black than white).

I converted it again

It is going to come down to SPR and tendency, but obviously nut flush draws have more equity and more dominating situations which you want to be value raising more often. YOu are leaving out most of the pivotal information in your hypothetical.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

40 trials (Exhaustive)

board: 6789

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
9h8h7c6c	65.00%	26	0
AhKcAcKh	35.00%	14	0

Both hands can call PSB there, implied odds will be in play if there is more than 1SPR

does it make any difference if its heads up vs 6max? as i should have added heads up to the op

Of course it makes a difference ffs. As I said you have left all pivotal information out of your hypothetical and you are trying to get understanding of something which only exists in your own mind as probably your question has some focus but it can't be read due to the structure of the info you presenting is so bad.

If you want to learn macro strategy, I would start with poker philosophy and your poker cognition, graphically and linguistically. That's just me though, I think people think/learn much differently to myself.

If you want to know about micro strategy, then post hands, and don't expect much insight if it is heads up because that game is more abstract and unsolvable than 6m in general. These 'wide open' questions don't work and if you are the wolf from before as you seem to be I think you must have memory problems if this has not sank ion yet.

Also if you are the wolf from before we can still play heads up, I would even coach you unless you shock the hell out of me and out play me. I have been waiting sort of.

you already said you were going to play me and didn't follow through when you said you would pm me in 2 weeks, that was month ago, so here we go again?

you said you wanted to play plo50 and i don't play those stakes which i told you already

dude as i said to you before when you see me post ignore it as i do with your posts.

you think you know my heads up game from how i post on forums

ok if you think so

I was being friendly , I think you have issues man

I said anything from plo50-200 , I can play higher but I doubt we will get much volume, anyway can you play on any sites? will pm , not today though too hangover