Hi forums, just have a specific situation that I need some clarification with.

I reg PLOz on Stars and always have run it twice ticked - I'm not a big fan of our old friend variance.

I was playing a local love PLO cash game, .50/$1 6max, and ran into a huge pot with one of the other regulars.

I open UTG w/ KKJ8ds, 2 callers. The strong reg, loose-agg preflop squeezes, 2 cold calls from loose fishy players. I 4bet, 3bettor calls, everyone else folds. ~$65 to the flop. Flop T97cc for nut straight w/ one bdfd. I cbet $55, other guy tanks and raises pot, I jam and he calls w/ QJxx w/ club draw. We were 250bb effective preflop and I decide to run it twice. We end up chopping the pot.

My question is, should I be running all of my very deep stack off situations twice? Even when I'm well ahead and block some of villains outs?

Running it twice doesn't change your EV. Not even if your opponent has only one out.

I rushed writing this out on my lunch break at work, villain and I were actually near 500bbs deep effective.

I understand that multiple runouts doesn't change the EV (actually, does card removal from say the first run influence the EV of the second run?), but in a 1000bb pot for four example stacking off in a near-flip situation, is it better to run twice for a chance not to go broke in a massive pot?

RIT just irons out varience a bit. If you feel more comfortable RIT deeper online then do it.

Live, not good etiquette to swap between the two, aint going make you any freinds trying to run it once when you're well ahead and twice on your big draws.

As for card on first run changing odd of second run. Of course, but because decisions are set pre runout it's irrelevant.

Hmm, you're right in that the runout is predetermined at the time of shuffling but given card removal from run 1, wouldn't that change the equities of run 2 and thus the overall EV, like the overall EV would be an average between the EV of run 1 & 2.. The maths of multiple runs hasn't ever occurred to me as important before.

These local cash games mostly involve people who I'm good friends with and our house rules dictate that we can run it twice if all participants in the pot agree and otherwise its default run it once. I've been in the habit of running it twice in 400bb+ pots which happen regularly considering everyone who plays buys in for 200bb+ with rebuys behind, even when I'm crushingly ahead e.g. still ran it twice when I flopped top set +nut fd against a weaker fd, oesd and pair in a 1400bb pot only 4 days ago.

When you run it twice the first run can affect the equity you have in the second run but your EV isn't changed. Your EV is measured from your last action - or the last branch of the game theory tree - which is when you got it all in.

Deciding how many times to run it depends a lot on your personality and how well you're rolled for the game. If you have a high risk of ruin you should be more inclined to run it twice to reduce variance (though you probably shouldn't be in the game if you have a high risk of ruin). You should also run it twice if you're likely to get tilted if you get sucked out on or when you're stuck. Conversely you may gain an advantage by running it once and tilting your opponents.

neither changes your ev but run it twice is gay so that is that...

I knew I missed something!

It isn't too hard to think of situations where one option is better. Like if there's a max buy-in and the fish is deep, you have an incentive to RIO. If whatever about variance, you have an incentive to RIT.

There's also the argument that running it twice with regular stack sizes is good against fish. If a fish doubles up he is satisfied and might hit and run. If a fish is busted he is broke and leaves. But if the fish splits the pot he's where he was before and stays.

But generally I think RIT is just a better atmosphere for the game. Keeping the game friendly and party-like will be more profitable (and enjoyable) than trying to win through fear where everyone is nervously tightening up.

I'm rolled for these games so i'm not worried about being sucked out on, I know my edge over these players is significant enough to make losing the occasional big pot nothing more than a slight setback, but it would still hurt a little if I'd spent 2 hours building up a 500bb stack off of the bad fish and then losing the lot to another fish with more money than sense (which is the general demeanour of 90% of the players who turn up to the games regularly).

I figure that if I keep running it twice I'll still be coming out on top even if most stack off pots end up being split since some of these players are stacking off in really bad shape a lot and I'm getting it in against the bad players in fantastic shape more often than not.

As it stands - RIT in pots where I'm 200bb+ effective, 100bb effective stacks offs I'll usually just say once is fine because its not a hard hit to my roll, but I hate to see a massive pot ship to another player when I GII w/ 65%+ equity for example.

Funny you mention keeping the fish around, they just have day jobs and are more than happy to come to these games on a weekly basis, drop 5/6 buyins and leave after they call me the luckiest guy in town (lol). To ensure they remain the ATMs they are I always agree with them when they try to justify stacking off 200bb deep with a super marginal combo draw or bottom 2p or whatever lol.