Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players - View hand 42713
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Hero (CO): $194.50
BTN: $104.55
SB: $91.00
BB: $206.55
UTG: $134.65
MP: $97.50

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with Q 6 Q 9
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, Hero raises to $5.50, 2 folds, BB calls $4.50, UTG calls $4.50, MP calls $4.50

Flop: ($22.50) Q 8 K (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $17, BB raises to $73.50, UTG folds, MP folds,

Hero??



Villain is 43/11/2.8 over 160 hands. No real history. Over this small sample, he raises cbets a lot (24%).

100BB, this is an easy push i think, but 200bb deep? Quite dry board, villain shows a lot of strength by raising with 2 people behind him left to act.

Standard line/thoughts on hand?

standard.

he could easily have 9j10 or other wrap type hands, 888, or my fav K8/Q8

Why are you raising this trash hand PF?

wat

dont really know your game, but from the cut off im raising a lot of ****.

Horray. Position with a trash hand and you still have...a trash hand.

You're right about one thing, it's that this hand is ****. Limping and trying to spike a Q is fine; but other than that, this hand is just pocket queens and a suited two gapper. Translation: it really has very little going for it. You're not going to be happy with any straights w/69 or Q9; ditto the flush possibilities. Make it QQT9 and instaraise, but as it stand this hand sucks; it's worth a limp and nothing more.

i think this is pretty much true for the most part, its definitely good to raise occasionally for image, etc. but with 2 limpers potting probably isnt the most ev play. definitely iso 1 limper however.

as for the hand, unless villain has "super nit" stats/image.... shipsville

[x] donk
[ ] unwinning play

[x] know nows 2710k plays 37/63 against qq96

You are a nit. This is a good raise if the limpers are weak players. I'm tired of these stupid preflop criticisms. Don't expect other people to be a tagfish like you. He's not asking about preflop anyway, he's asking about the flop.

This is such a standard spot to get it in. If he's raising cbets 24% of the time, it's not even close. If you had like KQ, then that would be a tough decision.

* blinks *

Okay, I'm new to PLO, so maybe I'm not the best informed. But when I first started the game about a month ago, I quickly realized that building huge pots with hands like QQxx was one of my biggest leaks. I don't think someone needs to be flamed into oblivion for pointing that out.

To the OP: As it stands, I'm probably going to fold here. It sucks and I won't be happy about it, but if he has KK, you're drawing to a 1-outer.

But... Hmmmm.... I dunno. If he's raising c-bets often, it's really tempting to shove it in. 200BB deep still has me leaning toward folding. Ugh. what a mess.

I could see justifying it either way. He's seen two players fold to your bet already, so it's a great spot for him to check-raise bluff. Then again, he was first to act on the flop, so I'd also be totally unsurprised to see him check-raising with the nuts.

Since you are new to PLO, then it is probably wise for you to not isolate with so-so QQxx. But there is value in isolating passive players, which the limpers presumably are, while having position over them. Now you don't have to do this if you don't want to, and if you're not particularly good postflop you probably shouldn't. But it is definitely a viable play. I'm just sick of all these TAGs who think they are god's gift to poker and think they have mastered PLO, who think that their snug preflop style is the de facto optimal way to play.

raise is fine, flop is standard

fine all around imo.

At no point am I pumping any fists, but thats the game.

I've focused on PF *because* the flop is standard....it's pretty much the best you can hope for aside from hitting top set obv.

PF is important because you can avoid marginal situations on the flop because you'll often flop crappy SDs and FDs that other players crush. As someone said earlier, this is an easily rectifiable leak. Maybe somewhere in Omaha theory land this is a marginally profitable raise against certain players, but I can say with certainty that by just calling (or for huge nits folding) you eschew a marginal situation replete with risk while sacrificing very little in EV (if it even exists...which I haven't yet been sufficiently convinced).

Its the position you are playing not the cards. QQxx can flop well sometimes. So thats a bonus. I dont see the problem.

the only time this is a problem is against a table full of loose passives.

Everyone's always saying oh snapshove he could have 88/KQ/K8/Q8. Are you ****ing serious? Why the **** would anyone want to shove those in? Only the worst fish do that, and I'm getting the impression their number is diminishing pretty quickly in the games I play. It's actually correct to just call here holding KQ/88, and to snapmuck K8/Q8. And any player that I'm facing in PLO100 knows that by now. Yet still, on 2p2, people praise shoving top two in a single raised 200BB deep pot and fistpumping. I guess this place has just become a big level. Either that, or I really need to find another place to play.

Raising this hand in the CO is not a leak and you saying so makes me feel like I need to drink beer.

Cheers!

For *most* people raising with this PF is a leak. If PLO Jedis like yourself want to play it, go ahead. Those who pass like myself aren't missing much EV.

Hero is a 35:65 dog against KKxx/AJTx but a favourite against KKxx/AJTx/88xx.

Hero only needs 42% here to justify a push. So, unless you think villain almost never has 88xx or worse here, it's an easy shove.

maybe i'm one of these nits that you're all talking about, but i don't think this is as standard as everyone says it is. and imo, 24% raise cbet isn't a lot.

although 160 hands isn't a lot, it should be enough to know whether or not he's a spewmonkey. if he is somewhat competent, i don't think he would full pot-raise with 2pair, esp with 2 payers yet to act. as you said, it's very strong. i don't think he would put in 1/3 of his stack in with KQ/Q8/K8, when someone behind him can easily wake up with 88xx.

i just don't like putting in 200BB with bare middle set and no redraw (BD 9 high and BD SD dont really count as redraws this deep).

he was the only person on the table that you should've avoided getting all the money in with this hand on this board.

que?

Care to be more specific? I think what I said is pretty straight forward.

Edit: Just in case ...

"KKxx/AJTx" means the range of hands than include KK and AJT, and
"KKxx/AJTx/88xx" means the range of hands than include KK,AJT, and 88

Can you clarify for lazy asses.

Did you account for card combos?

The ultimate PLO analysis tool:

http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/omahaSimulationEditor.jsp

I have ever read any documentation for this one. Does it take card removal and combos into account?

pretty much the same question from my lazy ignorant arse .