I just started to beat the game(plo25 +100khand) since July, learned a lot from different resources. worked hard on my game (3-4hour/day outside the tables)



PLO25
I built up a good foundation.

my stats are:
vpip 22
pfr 14
3bet% 2.8 (one of my leaks)
Fto3bet% 46
AQ : 32
cbet: 61

after I enlightened after months of study the game started to seem pretty easy:

1.I isolate the fish and owning him
2.limp behind in multiway pot +EV too
3.when I barrell I make it with a good timing, and have a highsuccess rate
4.i steal the blinds or someone defend and I play ip rest of the hand. easygame
5.when I have marginal hand we just checkdown.
6.my only weakness is 3betting
7.hade a moderate good nonsd result too (still negativ obv)


so I think I can controll the game especiall bc they passiv easy to read players.




PLO50

So did give a try for plo50. played only 5k hand but its a disaster
Dunno how much difference must be between these two limits but for its seems its a pretty different game from plo25.
There are still lot of huge fish (80/50, 40/0 types) but what I used at plo25 now seems worthless and bc of that my stats and result suffers a lot.

The biggest difference what I experienced is the following(regarding only the bad players I dont talk about better ones bc that obv that I will have trouble with them):

my at plo50:
vpip 17
pfr 10
3bet% 2.4
Fto3bet% 37
AQ : 28
cbet: 60

1.cant isolate the fish anymore. amazing... if I raise I get a 3bet or call from a ton of players
2.limp behind is bad because someone who plays 60/50 will raise than 3bet comes too 99% of the time from someone else. I suck.
3.when I barrell still +EV highly imo bet occurs less bc they dont call, they raise almost always.
4.for some reason they defend way more often than in plo25. my other problem is they call and lead way more often into me and i cant handle this
5.no more freeshowdown they bet the river even with set on a flushy, str8board)
6. 3bet is still what I should work on
7.turned a huge nonsdloss


As you can see I play more tighter, timidly at plo50 than at plo25.
And dont know what to do....
My stats suffers bc I cant play the hands I was playing at plo25 anymore. the bottom x% of starting hands will be discarded bc I almost never first to speak, there is already a raise and a reraise.


I thought there is not a big difference between plo25 and plo50 but seems the opposite
Figured if plo50 must be little tighter but the opposit: way more looser, aggroer..
Seems there is wayy more schooling and 3,4bet with trash like KT73ss. And because of that I feel my standard game worth nothing anymore.


I am a little desperated because I dont know what to I feel that all the work I did put into the game for several month now worthless bc game at plo50 its so different to me like a 7cardhi/lo game.


I welcome any advice?


PS: The differenc is really this huge??? Or I am miss something?

Sample size, LDO.

It's 5k hands. First-shots at new levels invariably don't go well. Regardless of what your BR is, the game feels bigger because it is. It takes time to work past that. You also don't have any notes/stats on the new player pool so you're playing more blindly than you're used to. That takes time to build up.

If you're confidence is shaken a bit, there's nothing wrong with dropping back down to 25 to build it back up. And keep taking shots until one sticks.

As for your game, 4 and 5 from 50 are good things, IMO. For 4, it's better than getting c/r with your marginal hands, right? Donks generally let you play fairly well. For 5, if they're betting the river light, that's just value waiting to be had. Remember, it's only 5k hands. That's nothing.

no money at poker, everyone solid...


on topic: u play FR? if not get much much looser, work on your handreading skills and steal more pots, try some donkbets aswell... try new things and look how it works out...

Im not sure if you have experience moving up in other games or not, because I can't speak for PLO, but I know i moved up through NLHE and I thought the same thing.

You only have 5k hands. Make sure you are comfortable rolled for 50PLO, and I would suggest adding some 50PLO tables into your 25PLO table session, and play them just like you would your normal game, with the idea of bumping up your aggression slightly overall.

I noticed that in NLHE the aggression went up at every level, and if you did not compensate you definetly would end up losing money. Also think about playing a more aggro game in 25PLO for a few k hands and see how it feels and take that game to 50PLO.

I too have had this problem and I think there's a big difference between the two levels (I play on ongame). I also have had some bad variance when I try to move up, as ever.

Great post OP for breaking it down so well. The only way through it is to do as you have been doing, but stay aggressive and just be rolled for the variance. Once you get a 200bb stack and other players get to know you - I think you do get more respect. Possibly what you've been experiencing is a lot of regs at that level playing back at you as they spot you as an unknown...

I iplayed way too fast and loose (I am a calling station when I tilt) when I first moved from 5c/10c to 10c/25c. I've adjusted and slowed down considerably and I am doing reasonably well over 8k hands at the new level. It's still a small sample but I feel good about my game overall. Still have a long way to go before I take my 25c/50c shot.

sounds like you are scared money, scared money in omaha really sucks.
also having a 3 betting leak is a pretty big leak.
take this advice, loosen up on btn and co considerably, tighten up utg etc considerably and see it work wonders.
here is a simple example.
you can easily fold KK96 no suits utg, but can and i think should 3 bet QQ 87 otb.

raise more air

thanks the help guys!

yeah I play 6max.
I am experienced during moving ups ( I play nl100, nl200 and sometimes nl400 when I feel the power)




yeah, I know. My leak regarding this that I dont know whether to cbet,potcontrol, giveup, stackoff in 3bet pots.
I know that any 2pair, pair+draw is an easy stackoff in 3betpot.
The problem comes for me with less valuable hands like bare overpair on dry board, tp+kickers, bare draw.
Dunno how to respond to an action that comes bc of my play:
I check back he leads the turn: he has it OR he want to take down?
when should I bet the draw risking to getting cr-ed or when should I checkback but then again if I dont hit I lose the pot(he bets out, or we see a river where I have air)
Or If I bet QQJ8 on 255r and get cr-ed really dont know what to do OR I checkback and he leads into my on a K turn.
OR should I cbet 234 bc I know his range is highcard or should I check bc he knows the same thing about my hand and will cr bluff..
...etc
...etc

So I am really lost in a bunch of spot in 3betpot.

I think this one called as: didnt understand how a hand will develop during postflop

How many tables are you playing right now? How many did you play at 25plo?

4table 99.5% of the time (rarely 5)

best advice ever, 1 tble w/o a hud....or 2 table...i did it for like 5 days and it seriously helped

+1


Edit: good post OP

Life beat me to the next post but follow his advice. Play less tables w/o HUD to get used to the games and more importantly get comfortable. When doing this also take time to focus on each and every decision throughly with a special focus on areas you feel you're struggling in i.e 3 bets, and post flop aggression. As you get more comfortable add in more tables and put HUD back on.

ok. if I 1-2table wo/hud what should I do (besides the obvious one: thinking deeper )

- play hudless because: to get own reads instead of the number OR(and?) turn off hud to avoid to be scared bc of the numbers (like I dont 3bet bc he opens extrem tight, or I dont bluff here bc he plays 100% vpip..etc)

- should I play my normal game or try to be much looser to get in marginal situations more frequently?



Can I learn from stuff that the instructors makes in coach videos? like play 100% from btn or 3bet 50% + of the time, or flatcall 100% ip to owning him. for fun and experience. stuff like these are good learningtools?


and what about rush poker? I get cards more frequently so 3bet situations comes faster and can learn them pretty fast. dont?

def dont play rush to try and learn omaha. u miss out on one of the biggest aspects of omaha which is the gameflow dynamics at each table. certain types of players change the aspect of how u have to play sooooooo much. u never get that at rush.

I would play HUDless just so you have no other information besides what your perceiving. It will force you to focus more and get a better idea of the flow.

I wouldn't try altering you're game radically either, instead just write down some goals i.e. 3 bet more, and try and do that during the session.

Also, as mentioned, stay away from Rush will transitioning up.

Big +1

game dynamics, what ppl are showing down--when ppl can/cant have the nuts in their range, how many barresl they call w/ non nut hands

and dont be afraid to lose money. i experience a 20bi downswing (over like 2 days) once a month, half way outta this months---yes i tilt and play bad, but thats being worked on

FYP

Yea pretty much wat e1 said here, loosen up, grow more balls and start 3betting more also donlt be afraid to 4bet light. And like some1 else said try to play most hands in position.

5K isn't big sample and i think everyone who moves up starts with tighter aproach while adjusting how people play at those stakes + pots are bigger which might scare. you can always move down and rebuild your confidence, take a shot later etc.

your 3-betting stat pretty much says u always have AAxx and observant players with hud can play perfectly against you and put a lot of pressure on you on flops like 987, 225 etc. if there's non-UTG open and opener isn't nit you can add to your 3-betting arsenal hands like: JT67ds, QJT7ss, KT96ds etc., but do it only in position.

ok tried it. 2tabled for the first time with hud, but will make session wo/ hud too.

some though:

upside
-made plans easier both pre and postflop
-better handselection
- never had a stat like this before: 26/20 3bet 4.1%

downside
-on the end get bored and made some loose call,raise

Perspective of a lag fish like me-
I am losing player with bad BRM - so ive played at all stakes upto $3/$6 . i find that the higher lvls good players loosen up and play back more . nits are much easier to play against .
the hand reading abilities are so much better. also you need to combine this with the ability to represen hands convincingly. meta games ic important too . you need to make some -ev plays now and again .
i believe a combination of above makes it hard for fish like. nits however i can comfortably play and beat

[QUOTE=2nd-crackPerspective of a lag fish like me-
I am losing player with bad BRM - so ive played at all stakes upto $3/$6 . i find that the higher lvls good players loosen up and play back more . nits are much easier to play against .
the hand reading abilities are so much better. also you need to combine this with the ability to represen hands convincingly. meta games ic important too . you need to make some -ev plays now and again .
i believe a combination of above makes it hard for fish like. nits however i can comfortably play and beat[/QUOTE]

I agree in terms of better players.

but i have spoken about the bad players over 50% vpip. couldnt handle their extrem preflop aggression. (but postflop they were much more straightforwarder)