plo25 playing too passively - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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plo25 playing too passively

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03-22-2011 , 03:54 AM

Maffff

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,065

I been trying to nit it up lately but then these sort of things happen.

Comments all streets please:

On Game, $0.25/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8342872

SB: $20.29 (81.2 bb)
Hero (BB): $36.04 (144.2 bb)
MP: $74.39 (297.6 bb)
CO: $49.32 (197.3 bb)
BTN: $24.50 (98 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9

MP raises to $1, CO calls $1, BTN folds, SB calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($4) 5

(4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets $4, CO calls $4, SB folds, Hero calls $4

Turn: ($16) 2

(3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $16, CO calls $16, Hero calls $16

River: ($64) 9

(3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets $28.32 and is all-in, Hero has $15 to cry call with?

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

MP 83/25
CO 43/23

Both of them are loose pre but passive call stations post.

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03-22-2011 , 04:29 AM

Onyx

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,525

River is a fold obv.
Keeping the pot multi-way gave you the odds to draw, just about with MP potting to protect his hand, but not sure you would have got value from a worse flush had you hit yours.
The problem with such a passive line is you have to hit your hand to win the pot & let it go if a better draw gets there too, all a bit alien to me!!

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03-22-2011 , 04:36 AM

moki

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,051

There is no reason to call this river

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03-22-2011 , 05:01 AM

shynd

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 29

easy to watch the replay and know you are not going to get the guy to fold it, I don't hate your line personally, that's the type of flop that hits everyone in the face, so unlikely you are going to get a different result, you gave yourself a shot to win a big pot there, gotta find the discipline to let that go on the river

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03-22-2011 , 05:07 AM

LessonsAreExtra

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 208

Check raise turn, you probably have a good equity here assuming MP is not always having a set, which won't be the majority of the time given he's the last one to speak, he can have some Jxxx and draws in his range too. By check raise you improve you're chance to win by trying to isolate the MP and make the cutoff fold some worse hand that can improve to beat you.

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03-22-2011 , 05:08 AM

butterfly pony

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,201

ez f otr

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03-22-2011 , 05:11 AM

butterfly pony

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,201

Quote:

Originally Posted by LessonsAreExtra

i dont think cr makes sense here, we most likely need to improve to beat CO and not the other way around. we dont have a hand to protect so to speak

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03-22-2011 , 08:01 AM

Mt.FishNoob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 12,241

^need to improve to beat MP fyp

river you could b/f 6$ lol

as played ughghghghghghghghghghgh wanna call but gotta fold as CO is repping flush quite hard

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03-22-2011 , 11:23 AM

Leroy2DaBeroy

Head in the Clouds

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,761

*Grunch*

Check/shove turn.

Edit: River spades are going to be tricky. Club straight-completers are going to be tricky. We shouldn't be in that bad of shape against a set.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

56,520 trials (Exhaustive)

board: 5

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
9sTsQsKh	38.70%	21,736	280
(JJ**)&25%	61.30%	34,504	280

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03-22-2011 , 11:43 AM

#10

Maffff

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,065

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy

*Grunch*

Check/shove turn.

Edit: River spades are going to be tricky. Club straight-completers are going to be tricky. We shouldn't be in that bad of shape against a set.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

56,520 trials (Exhaustive)

board: 5

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
9sTsQsKh	38.70%	21,736	280
(JJ**)&25%	61.30%	34,504	280

Thing is - I really didn't have fold equity against these two. I also didn't have a pair. Had to use great self control not to shove turn as I'd normally snap shove it.

Now I'm thinking, I've actually got value to shove it as it will make sure it goes 3 way to the river? Surely I'm better than 33% on that turn 3 way???

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03-22-2011 , 11:49 AM

#11

Mt.FishNoob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 12,241

there is no fold equity so check shove is just pointless

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03-22-2011 , 12:34 PM

#12

deluz35

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 484

I'd like to see re-raise pf. I'd like to see you lead flop. I'd like to see you lead the turn. Why is this better then check-calling? The mythical quest for fold equity. It's just a fundamentally sounder way to play PLO. People do fold a non-zero % of the time. That's the lesson to be learned from this hand. You will realize more equity in the long run by betting hands that you are going to c-c anyway. The only time to get passive is against extremely spewy bluff monsters. And even then that's only heads-up or on ultra-dry boards.

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03-22-2011 , 12:34 PM

#13

Tsajajaja

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6,677

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leroy2DaBeroy

Edit: River spades are going to be nuts

indeed!

whole hand is well played, u can 3bet pf sometimes
river is a crying fold

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