PLO200 JJT7s 3bet-pot - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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PLO200 JJT7s 3bet-pot

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01-08-2010 , 07:21 AM

Pochihas

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 19

Party, $1/$2 PL Omaha Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $416.50
SB: $270.40
BB: $228.10
UTG: $424.15
CO: $128.30

Pre-Flop: J

dealt to Hero (BTN)
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, SB folds, BB raises to $20, Hero calls $13

Flop: ($41) 4

(2 Players)
BB bets $34, Hero raises to $143, BB raises to $208.10 and is All-In, Hero calls $65.10

villain is standart reg 21\16 3bet 6%
Is it fold preflop? Should i shove such a flop vs him?

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01-08-2010 , 07:50 AM

realmaniac

banned

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,755

preflop is questionable and villain depending. jjt7ss isnt a great hand

stacking off with this hand on this flop makes no sense to me. your fd could be easily dominated as well as your pair

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01-08-2010 , 08:52 AM

LOL LDO

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,058

I'm always calling pre and on the flop it's just about your image and reads, but getting it in looks fine.

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01-08-2010 , 10:04 AM

Jabonator

nice piano there

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 13,342

Seems superstandard to me.

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01-08-2010 , 10:27 AM

Loctus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,280

Easy flop fold imo. We are barely flipping against bare aces while overpair with higher flushdraw have us absolutely crushed.

Even a high rundown with heart is favourite against our hand.

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01-08-2010 , 10:50 AM

surGeonFFS

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 641

You have something like 15-20 % against his aces with heart suits, and you're flipping against the rest of his AA range. If you put him on AA every time he will have aces with hearts something like 20 % of the time.

It's a mistake to get it in if you expect him to have aces everytime and never fold them. You win 20 $ (dead money) four times for every one time he wins 160 $ (80 % out of what you put in on the flop).

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01-08-2010 , 11:40 AM

koOma

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,902

not a fantastic spot on flop but jamming is def. the right play. I'd fold to the 3b tho, our hand plays very poorly vs any reasonable 3b range and if we're not sure what to do when we flop pair + FD.. well that should tell u something.

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01-08-2010 , 01:00 PM

2+2=5

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,540

Quote:

Originally Posted by realNIT

preflop is questionable and villain depending. jjt7ss isnt a great hand

stacking off with this hand on this flop makes no sense to me. your fd could be easily dominated as well as your pair

fixed your SN

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01-08-2010 , 01:06 PM

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 20,764

Quote:

Originally Posted by realmaniac

preflop is questionable and villain depending. jjt7ss isnt a great hand

This makes like far too easy for those playing OOP. I want them to believe that my opening range on the button includes hands like this one.

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01-08-2010 , 08:31 PM

#10

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,281

calling the flop and jamming any turn is much more likely to get your opponent to fold an overpair than how you played it

your line is ok - kind of read dependent - this flop definately isn't always a fold but jamming here against certain opponents is very spewy

having the 7 really doesn't help you very much

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01-08-2010 , 08:36 PM

#11

mrw8419

Connoisseur

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by monikrazy

the problem with that line is that villain can jam turn and we are stuck folding with a bunch of equity which sucks

also the 7 is a huge help against AA hands as it gives us 5 extra outs vs an overpair

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01-08-2010 , 08:38 PM

#12

coldi

Iceman

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,996

Quote:

Originally Posted by monikrazy

board: 2h4h7s
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
AA** 62.43% 374,580 58
JhJsTd6h 37.57% 225,362 58

board: 2h4h7s
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
AA** 53.05% 318,190 195
JhJsTd7h 46.95% 281,615 195

I'd say 10% is quite a lot.

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01-08-2010 , 08:40 PM

#13

jwc529

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,112

very standard

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01-08-2010 , 08:51 PM

#14

epokerounder

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 205

fold pre. never fold flop. call flop shove any str8 cards he checks on turn as played. very standard to stack off here against more aggressive opponents though, although obv not a fist pump

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01-08-2010 , 09:01 PM

#15

epokerounder

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 205

totally standard after flop. if villain has a reasonable tight 3 bet range here this is prob a fold pre.

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01-09-2010 , 01:52 AM

#16

cobrastatus

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,319

Isn't getting it on this board against a standard reg with 21/16/6 who doesn't get out of line = burning money?

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01-09-2010 , 08:32 AM

#17

realmaniac

banned

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,755

board: 4h7s2h
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
jhtc7hjd 24.63% 147,688 225
aha*h*,5678,khksqhjs,qhjstc9h 75.37% 452,087 225

this looks like a more realistic cbet / get it in range for this type of villain imo

ofc u'll have fold equity but not enough equity overall to make this play profitable

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01-09-2010 , 11:36 AM

#18

CZI

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,351

Please stop saying this was played 100% standard. Calling the 3bet pre is a spew. This hand plays horrible OOP in a HU 3bet pot. You're gonna have to c/f 90% of flops, unless you wanna get creative (read: spewy) on KQx type of flops and the such. This flop is one of the better ones you could get, not much else you can do but CRAI, and still you'll never be in good shape against his continuing range. Fold pre.

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01-09-2010 , 11:54 AM

#19

jwc529

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,112

we're not OOP

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01-09-2010 , 11:57 AM

#20

cobrastatus

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,319

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZI

totally agree, the "100% standard" posts made me

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01-09-2010 , 12:33 PM

#21

Pokerbrat

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,761

Wow, a lot of nits ITT. First off, we are in position and the call preflop is completely fine. The flop shove is fine too, if you do anything else you are playing too nitty imo.

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01-09-2010 , 12:42 PM

#22

cobrastatus

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,319

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerbrat

Wow, a lot of nits ITT. First off, we are in position and the call preflop is completely fine. The flop shove is fine too, if you do anything else you are playing too nitty imo.

You are looking at this too generally imo. What hands do you think a 21/16/6 TAG is going to stack off with on this board that you have crushed/are flipping with?

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01-09-2010 , 01:01 PM

#23

realmaniac

banned

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,755

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerbrat

Wow, a lot of nits ITT. First off, we are in position and the call preflop is completely fine. The flop shove is fine too, if you do anything else you are playing too nitty imo.

id rather say so many useless posts itt. give a range for this villain and the equity we have vs this range. everything else is just useless blabla

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01-09-2010 , 02:19 PM

#24

Jabonator

nice piano there

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 13,342

Again, it seems like people here don't quite understand the situation when we raise. We don't know what he has. He might be stacking off, he might be folding. We should have decent folding equity against his cbetting range, and when he decides to go with his hand, we have outs to win, often more than enough. We're not raising with the knowledge that he's getting it in.

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01-09-2010 , 02:29 PM

#25

jj12

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,396

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jabonator

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