PLO20 : Best value line ? - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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PLO20 : Best value line ?

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05-29-2016 , 04:09 AM

salmonLOVER

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 16

Hi,
I guess everyone leans toward a call OTT, if not why ?
And what's your play OTR ?
No info on BB.

Winamax - €0.20 PL Hi (4 max) - Omaha Hi - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 90.9 BB
Hero (SB): 102.15 BB
BB: 241.7 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 8

Hero bets 4 BB, BB calls 4 BB

Turn: (14 BB, 2 players) 3

Hero bets 9.25 BB, BB raises to 20 BB, Hero calls 10.75 BB

Spoiler:

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05-29-2016 , 04:45 AM

SolarAU

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 1,795

Flop and turn both look fine to me. The benefit of taking a bet/call line on this turn means that we can credibly rep a wider range than flushes, so on any non-board pairing river we can get a x/r for value against his own strong flushes and we also give him a chance to continue with any of his bluffs. Leading river and leading this small I don't like at all in this spot given we don't win another bet from his bluffs and we minimise the value we get from his worse flushes that he decided to raise turn with.

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05-29-2016 , 04:49 AM

OmahaFanatical4

banned

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5,123

4:1 with 10 outs = snap call

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05-29-2016 , 06:48 AM

salmonLOVER

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolarAU

Thanks, my (bad) thinking process was that we rep flushes often enough when we call turn that he would not value his flushes OTR. I have not a clear idea yet on the average player but it seems that nobody tries to "thin" value. Even though it's not that thin to value a flush Jhigh, I think he would have x back this.

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05-29-2016 , 06:50 AM

salmonLOVER

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmahaFanatical4

4:1 with 10 outs = snap call

What's wrong with you ?

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05-29-2016 , 07:22 AM

SolarAU

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 1,795

Quote:

Originally Posted by salmonLOVER

Not sure how the people play at your stakes but in your villain's shoes I'm value betting most of my flushes when checked to on the river.

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05-29-2016 , 08:25 AM

thsheriff

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 199

I think the hand is wp, except for the sizing OTR. I think villain is weighted more towards medium strength flushes when he clicks back the turn than the K high flush, which is probably the only hand that he would value bet the river at plo10. I'd lead for something closer to pot, expecting to get called by a lot of hands that are going to check back.

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05-29-2016 , 10:27 AM

this_passing

소녀시대 애교 대박

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,442

the problem with your line is what are you going to do with the bare Ad?

you could:
1) 3bet small on turn and jam blank or even pairing rivers
2) call and bet close to or full pot on river
3) call and x/r all-in on river

all 3 of those options i think would be better than x/c and bet small on river because they're all way more effective at allowing you to actually win the hand with the bare Ad, which is a pretty important part of your range OTT

i would in a vacuum probably choose option 3 since it allows you to be uncapped and protects your turn b/c range a bit. can x/c flushes and other bluff catchers on river then x/r your Ad and nut flush hands

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05-29-2016 , 08:16 PM

gaelichero2

adept

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 813

Not understanding why you didn't ship it all on the turn.

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05-30-2016 , 12:50 AM

#10

Charlie Yu

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 465

A raise here would be likely slow played sets and maybe a couple of 2nd/3rd flushes. I am going to 3bet to ~50bb here to charge his sets.

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05-30-2016 , 03:17 AM

#11

cashnotakite

grinder

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 446

Quote:

Originally Posted by this_passing

This is a clearly explained, excellent post IMO

Sent from my MotoG3 using 2+2 Forums

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05-30-2016 , 09:11 AM

#12

OmahaFanatical4

banned

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5,123

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaelichero2

Not understanding why you didn't ship it all on the turn.

shipping the turn is not a good idea

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05-30-2016 , 11:12 AM

#13

Rei Ayanami

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 11,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by this_passing

i would in a vacuum probably choose option 3 since it allows you to be uncapped and protects your turn b/c range a bit. can x/c flushes and other bluff catchers on river then x/r your Ad and nut flush hands

Seems like you're phrasing it as if flatting Add on the turn should be done for balance, but that's not correct or necessary.

It should be done if it's good as an exploit. (Which isn't entirely clear -- this fishy turn raise size reeks of either a "cheap showdown raise" or a "find out where I'm at raise", and the correct play differs in both cases.)

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05-30-2016 , 12:53 PM

#14

gaelichero2

adept

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 813

Look how the whole hand was played

On the turn Hero has the nut flush .. bets, gets raised and flat calls. Then when the board pairs on the river, Hero bets out into the player for a value type bet.

In a small stakes PLO game I'm not too worried about the player folding pot bet on the turn because he just had an inferior flush and no redraw. But I am thinking that if the board pairs it will kill the action, or outdraw my hand, or I get outplayed.

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05-31-2016 , 03:56 AM

#15

Chen Heiner

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 167

With this little info, this looks like a pretty clear turn jam to me. His turn sizing suggests he's not going to bet the river very often as already stated before and since there's a decent chance he's a fun player, I wanna put my money in asap and give him the chance to make a bad call before a bad river rolls off.
Balance-wise this is obv not great but in this specific spot, I couldn't care less.

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05-31-2016 , 10:07 AM

#16

sauhund

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 5,936

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chen Heiner

With this little info, this looks like a pretty clear turn jam to me. His turn sizing suggests he's not going to bet the river very often as already stated before and since there's a decent chance he's a fun player, I wanna put my money in asap and give him the chance to make a bad call before a bad river rolls off.
Balance-wise this is obv not great but in this specific spot, I couldn't care less.

why is that? as long as you do it with Ad which you should have plenty anyway given you opened from sb (which is another point, but hey, if you kids wanna open sb vs bb, fine), you´ll be fine.

how would you balance the line hero took?

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05-31-2016 , 11:46 AM

#17

naggeri

adept

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 957

Check river imo but maybe we lose value here but overall its better than lead

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