Villain is playing 66/40/22 agg 1.8 bet river 26%.

I think flop and turn are standard. What's the best line on the river?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $0.10(BB) Replayer
Hero ($27.85)
BB ($20.07)
UTG ($10.45)
UTG+1 ($12.29)
CO ($23.59)
BTN ($4.66)

Dealt to Hero T 9 Q 8

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.35, BTN calls $0.35, Hero calls $0.30, fold

FLOP ($1.15) 6 8 J

Hero bets $0.90, CO calls $0.90, BTN calls $0.90

TURN ($3.85) 6 8 J 2

Hero bets $2.90, CO calls $2.90, BTN raises to $3.41 (AI), Hero calls $0.51, CO calls $0.51

RIVER ($14.08) 6 8 J 2 A

Hero bets $6.50, CO raises to $18.93 (AI), Hero.......

i think he got you. never saw fancy riverbluffraises at plo10.

if he's a maniac - call - its a tough spot - as he could do this with a weaker flush.

I doubt he's doing it as a bluff as there is already a guy all in. He probably has you but you don't have to be right very much to make this profitable. It wouldn't be bad to call.


If you bet smaller on turn - you could of reraised that guy who was all in - and was almost for sure going to try and get all his $$$ in on the turn.

I would of liked $1.50 - $1.70 bet on turn.

even with such good odds i would fold river

also consider too that he might be less likely to bluff given that the hand will go to showdown regardless of what u do because of the BTN

........Hero folds

CO shows A T 6 A
(Pre 75%, Flop 16.3%, Turn 5.0%)

BTN shows 6 K 5 6
(Pre 25%, Flop 83.7%, Turn 95.0%)

CO wins $25.93

Although villain insta potted the river so i'm not going to give him too much credit, i really like his line.

Given the board texture, it's really unlikely that i have the nut flush as if i have 2 pair, wrap or a set then there are not many K high flush draws that make up the balance of those hands, plus a set of aces gives him the best hand against the ai guy the majority of the time.

This was one of the few times i have been really stumped for a decision on the river since i started playing again.

At these stakes you can see this type of thing with lower flushes and hands that don't make sense. Most people at this level are just trying to read their cards. They're not thinking much.

Imma snap this river vs a 60% VPIP at PLO10

He might bluff, but also valueshove most flushes. Most of these guys have no fear of the nuts, lol

I don't think you can generalise too much - there are people at these stakes who are maniacs pre flop and complete nits or calling stations post flop - this guy was the target at this table, and certainly hadn't been out of line so far pot flop.

Had there not been a main pot so villain's hand would not be revealed regardless i'm pretty sure i would have called - i'm not sure he was necessarily thinking about this when he shoved, but it played a part in my thought process.

Pretty sure the dude didnt notice there were 3 hearts on the board. Must have been so tilting for you.
I usually puke-call these spots. Hate them as we all do of course, but I simply dont think we can find a hero fold with the pot so big.

I'm new to plo, so sorry if this question is bad, but is the call pre standard? We're out of position and that hand has trouble written all over it. As for the river I'm probably folding too, but is check/call an option? or do we need to bet this for value?

Pre is 100% standard, in fact against wide cutoff/btn ranges and/or if bb is exceptionally squeeze happy one could argue for 3betting this hand.

Check/call on the river has got to be the worst option, since villain should be bluffing exactly 0% into a dry side pot and the only hands he is betting for value are flushes, which would pay off our bet anyways. And if villain is really nitty he might not bet his small flushes, but I can't see him ever folding them to a bet.

To be honest I think that in this particular spot him having a better hand some % of the time should not be taken into account when deciding on action. We should treat our hand as the nuts and play it accordingly.

yeah i didn't 3 bet here with a shorty in when we are deep. Could put me in an awkward spot if the shorty shoves over a 3 bet and call from villain.

But yeah, you have to plan hands like these against a 66/40/22 although you can definitely make a case for folding pre against 2 good players.

never fold pre

I have a number of thoughts

Pre-flop – since main villain is 60/40/22 3betting doesn’t appear the best way to go here. If his agg is 1.8, seems like he can fold sometimes but will in many cases call bets. Either way I like calling pre against this type of villain.

Flop – What’s the purpose of donking here? Are we worried that the 1.8 villain won’t bet and we give away a free card? Our best two-pair combo is Q8 which is worse than AAxx,KKxx,QQxx,JJxx,88xx,66xx,J8xx,J6xx, and 86xx. That’s 9 different two card combos. I forgot to mention that A8xx and K8xx are also ahead of us. It’s likely none of those combos (except A8 or K8) fold to our donk bet on the flop. Our donk bet is usually a good draw, a two-pair combo, and rarely a set and if a set likely 66xx. Against an aggro player post flop you might want to do this to get stacks in on the flop (assuming you’re both at 100bbs and not deeper) but against a less aggro player, I like c/r the flop. I don’t believe donking on this board is bad, I’m just unsure why you are doing so here. Was you idea to induce a raise so you get stacks in? If so, then I like that plan because against just about everything he has you’re essentially in a flip situation. That’s still why I prefer the c/r because you fold out his air and everything that comes for the ride is still flipping unless he has a Jxxx combo with the same straight draw. Then that just sucks, but such is life.

Turn – Ok, so the flop gives us 2 callers and the turn now brings a flush draw. Here’s where we have to ask ourselves – am I willing to ship it on this street? I say this because we had two people call us on a relatively dry board and a 2h comes – which should be a blank. But if one of them was sitting on a set or two pair they may have just called in order to see a blank on the turn. I know I do that sometimes, and especially against a donk bet. Anyhow, I don’t particularly like your sizing on this street. You donked, pretending you have the best hand on the flop. If you have JJxx or 88xx the turn card should be a fist pump. And now you’d want to extract the most value you can from those suckers on ~20% flush draw. Instead, you bet around 2/3rds of the pot which seems odd. You have 3rd nut flush draw yourself but those hands generally pay off the 1st and 2nd nut flushes. I think you have to make your bet bigger here, but don’t be shocked if you get raised all-in. Assuming he doesn’t also have the flush draw, I think you have enough to call a shove on the turn. For instance, against a hand as strong as AJJT that doesn’t have a heart flush draw you’re getting around 42% on the turn. You can live with that. If AJJT has the flush draw, you still have 25% equity. That’s not enough.

Either way, I think you need to bet larger on the turn and have a plan if you get raised. I’d likely call.

River – Alrighty then, so the flush gets there and we have 2nd nuts. This is where I’d be asking myself some pretty hard questions. What’s he calling 2 streets with and not raising? AAxx fits within that mold sure. Even KKxx if it had some thing with it could call us. I think sets and Jxxx two pair combos are raising us on the turn. Given the villain is 1.8 he’s probably not betting his flush draws. Might be, but I’m assuming he isn’t.

Thus, I like c/c on this river. I don’t like B/F because we can be bluffed off out hand. Imagine if he has something like a J-high flush here. You haven’t been betting your hand repping a flush draw. He’s likely to think any flush he has beats whatever you have. Maybe he has the K-high nuts, maybe he has AAxx. Who knows. But I do believe that given the way the hand plays him having a flush is possible and him thinking we don’t have a flush is likely, imo. In such a case, I prefer to c/c. If we have his flush owned we’ve gotten great value for this hand. If he owned us, we know exactly what type of line he’ll take with that type of hand and we can adjust accordingly.

By betting here we’re folding out 100% of his air. We also don’t give him a chance to bluff but again, with a 1.8 agg that’s fairly low. I think 26% on the river is kind in the mid-range of betting and seems a bit out of sync with a 1.8. Thus, I can see arguments for betting this river. But for me, I’m always willing to win less so I don’t lose more in situations like this and turn my hand into a bluff catcher when I’m unsure of the actions of my opponent (namely, why the heck is he calling the turn!?)

As played, I’m shrug calling about 50% of the time and folding the other 50% based on flipping a coin.

Yeah, players at this level are just randomly bad. If a guy does one thing it hardly means anything because their play is completely random and unpredicatable. You can't get reads on them, aside from really simple stuff because there is no consistency in what they are doin.

RI, I think you play higher stakes. I imagine you could play every hand and have a positive win rate at this level. There's just too much random bad play here. Sometimes they'll just do this with J8 or something ridiculous because they're tilted or they're bored. His range is practically anything. Kxs is the most likely hand, but not enough to fold.

Difficult. It are many blinds to bet. But i would call. Because you were good on all streets id consider this a cooler if he shows the k high flush. On plo 10 ive seen low flushes and trips doing this before.

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I actually didn't notice that the river was played into a dead side pot, def a factor

I also agree that over-generalisation is bad, but the preflop stats do suggest potential overplay. Even at midstakes, I have whales valueshoving top set OTR with the board reading JT985.

I’m not someone who tends to donk a lot, but i think it’s a useful weapon and for whatever reason i felt it was the best option here. I tend to donk for two reasons; information, and dependant on stack sizes. With these stack sizes if i get raised here i get to have the last meaningful bet, and give me the best fold equity, which i’m happy to have with a pair of eights.
Yeah sizing is a bit meh here though, as i *know*the shortie is going to shove. It’s not completely meh – the only sixing that matters is whether i bet more or less than half of the shorties stack so i can come over the top. My rational for not betting half the pot was i felt i would have a good chance of getting paid with my back door flush otr, although again going for maximum f/e by sizing out bet so we can come over the top can’t be underestimated.
I think he calls 100% of his lower flushes here; the question is does he check back enough of these flushes compared to how often we get valued by the K flush on the river (not phrased this well but hopefully it’s obvious what i mean). Again, he should never bluff here as the side pot is dry so purely on hand strength i believe i should bet as the only time i should get owned here is by the K flush, we get paid by any lower flush, and maybe he hero calls with a badly played set, AAA or 2 pair (this is PLO10...). He is obviously going to bet some of his flushes if we check, and maybe worse so perhaps it’s closer than i felt at the time where the only question was one of sizing.
As mentioned before i love villains bluff, although i agree with an earlier poster i think he shoves not realising there are hearts.