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PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg?

05-01-2017 , 02:41 PM
    Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37715585

    SB: $10 (100 bb)
    BB: $25.34 (253.4 bb)
    Hero (UTG): $10 (100 bb)
    MP: $31.07 (310.7 bb)
    CO: $20.75 (207.5 bb)
    BTN: $10.73 (107.3 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with K 2 4 K
    Hero raises to $0.35, MP calls $0.35, 4 folds

    Flop: ($0.85) J A T (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.61, MP calls $0.61

    Turn: ($2.07) 3 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.50, MP calls $1.50

    River: ($5.07) 7 (2 players)
    Hero bets $3.50, MP calls $3.50




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    He is a fairly decent reg.
    He is 30/17/7 on 371 hands.
    AFq of 38.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-01-2017 , 09:33 PM
    yeah looks good don't expect him to call here wonder what he had that can call really? set of JJ i guess
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-02-2017 , 10:45 AM
    He had AAQx
    Bit weird to see him not 3betting AA ip


    edit: Is my KK42r a fold UTG? I wonder what to do with bad KK/QQ utg.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-02-2017 , 06:44 PM
    considering the rake, i prefer to fold pre. This guy has an extremely high afq, so in his perspective u might bluff with queens or kings. i would like a pot size block on both turn and river to maximize folding equity if hes passive enough of calling.

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    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-02-2017 , 07:05 PM
    I'd bet river bigger if I were to bet
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-03-2017 , 03:07 AM
    Triple-barrel seems optimistic, agree with fold pre without a suit
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-03-2017 , 10:44 AM
    Yeah bet a little bigger and this becomes a marginal play vs a "fairly decent" reg at PLO10, as opposed to just being bad vs everyone else.

    Not really a play you have to make.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-03-2017 , 10:52 AM
    Don't know about cold callng ranges of fairly decent regs at PL10. If they were tight I don't expect too much fold equity against this particular range. Agree to bet bigger though.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-03-2017 , 11:34 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gallagher99
    He had AAQx
    Bit weird to see him not 3betting AA ip


    edit: Is my KK42r a fold UTG? I wonder what to do with bad KK/QQ utg.
    I probably pitch this one as youre likely going multiway and this hand doesnt play well
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-03-2017 , 10:46 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MSUJew
    I probably pitch this one as youre likely going multiway and this hand doesnt play well
    How does dry Kings not play well multiway? It either flops the nuts or nothing.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-04-2017 , 07:39 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot
    How does dry Kings not play well multiway? It either flops the nuts or nothing.
    How much do you love your set when the flop in connected or suited multiway?

    Last edited by MSUJew; 05-04-2017 at 07:47 AM. Reason: playing OOP
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-04-2017 , 10:12 PM
    Idk, seems like the wrong argument for folding pre, playing 4+ way is very comfy with KK42r, since the larger starting pot subsidizes all the times you give up with a non-set hand, and of course sets make lots of money (even OOP).
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-05-2017 , 07:33 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rei Ayanami
    Idk, seems like the wrong argument for folding pre, playing 4+ way is very comfy with KK42r, since the larger starting pot subsidizes all the times you give up with a non-set hand, and of course sets make lots of money (even OOP).
    I just think this hand plays best HU (I dont think anyone would disagree) and there are a ton of better combos of KKxx that we could be opening UTG. This is nearly the worst KK we could have. More often than not the flop doesnt come favorable multiway. Additionally if we flop top set on a dry flop we probably aren't getting paid off very often when we have the lead from UTG, imo.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-05-2017 , 10:07 AM
    I think the point you mean but not mentioning is that this hand is a fold against a 3bet, which will happen over 20% of the time given you don't have an Ace blocker. Since you have to fold against a 3-bet you loose 350bb/100 everytime you get 3-bet. So this hand needs a lot more to be able to make up for this.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-06-2017 , 12:29 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MSUJew
    I just think this hand plays best HU (I dont think anyone would disagree) and there are a ton of better combos of KKxx that we could be opening UTG. This is nearly the worst KK we could have. More often than not the flop doesnt come favorable multiway. Additionally if we flop top set on a dry flop we probably aren't getting paid off very often when we have the lead from UTG, imo.
    Sorry, why do you believe with a hand that flops either the nuts or nothing it is better to play HU, when we have less postflop maneuverability? If anything the opposite is true. I'm not saying this is an open UTG, it very well may need better side cards to be profitable, but in general we want distributed equity hands to play HU pots because we can bluff, value bet, and get creative 'thinner' than we can with polarized ones. Of course we can do these things much better in position as well, but I would much rather have a smooth hand that I can double barrel a lot of turns with (HU) and still have decent equity when called than to have to check and give up when my 2 outs don't hit which they don't like 95% of the time when we don't flop a set.

    You seem to be saying two different things here. In general, if you're taking dry big pairs oop into HU pots you will get destroyed by good players. The fact is though, that raising this hand UTG is MUCH more likely to result in a multiway pot postflop which is exactly what you want because positional advantage is then much less important and postflop play becomes about pure equity advantage...an advantage you either have or don't with KKxx.

    Last edited by DoOrDoNot; 05-06-2017 at 12:50 AM.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-06-2017 , 11:01 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot
    Sorry, why do you believe with a hand that flops either the nuts or nothing it is better to play HU, when we have less postflop maneuverability? If anything the opposite is true. I'm not saying this is an open UTG, it very well may need better side cards to be profitable, but in general we want distributed equity hands to play HU pots because we can bluff, value bet, and get creative 'thinner' than we can with polarized ones. Of course we can do these things much better in position as well, but I would much rather have a smooth hand that I can double barrel a lot of turns with (HU) and still have decent equity when called than to have to check and give up when my 2 outs don't hit which they don't like 95% of the time when we don't flop a set.

    You seem to be saying two different things here. In general, if you're taking dry big pairs oop into HU pots you will get destroyed by good players. The fact is though, that raising this hand UTG is MUCH more likely to result in a multiway pot postflop which is exactly what you want because positional advantage is then much less important and postflop play becomes about pure equity advantage...an advantage you either have or don't with KKxx.
    I should have specified that I meant HU IP. Even still. When we flop a set multiway most run outs will not favor top set by the river. And most of the time we will raise pre and fold flop because we have ****e. When we do flop top set and get a call otf there are many runouts that turn our hand into a bluff catcher. So I just toss this hand pre and wait for a better KKxx.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-06-2017 , 11:18 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MSUJew
    I should have specified that I meant HU IP. Even still. When we flop a set multiway most run outs will not favor top set by the river.
    I mean I disagree with this in principle because there are only a few straight and flush flops that contain our top set and we have close to 40% equity vs. those made hands, on non straight/non flush containing flops we have 50%+ equity and on dry board we have even more. In those cases we are drawing to a full house, so be it. Nut full houses beat straights and flushes.

    Quote:
    And most of the time we will raise pre and fold flop because we have ****e. When we do flop top set and get a call otf there are many runouts that turn our hand into a bluff catcher. So I just toss this hand pre and wait for a better KKxx.
    Top set is a draw to nut boat in those cases where a turn outdraws us. It seems like you think that's a bad draw or something. Nothing wrong with folding when we get outdrawn. Also nothing wrong with charging people to draw with the strongest possible hand at the time. I toss this hand pre too most of the time, because our side cards are complete crap.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-06-2017 , 11:46 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot
    Top set is a draw to nut boat in those cases where a turn outdraws us. It seems like you think that's a bad draw or something. Nothing wrong with folding when we get outdrawn. Also nothing wrong with charging people to draw with the strongest possible hand at the time. I toss this hand pre too most of the time, because our side cards are complete crap.
    BCS is we have like 25% with one card to come. Im not entirely thrilled about this draw facing a PSB after we presumably pot the flop.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote
    05-06-2017 , 09:13 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MSUJew
    BCS is we have like 25% with one card to come. Im not entirely thrilled about this draw facing a PSB after we presumably pot the flop.
    True, and if villain bets any more than 1/2 pot and there is no implied odds, then it's a fold. Oh well. It depends on the situation and the opponent I guess, like every hand in poker.

    However I agree and fold this most often unless I have nits on my left and fish in the blinds.
    PLO10 - KK42r utg flop AJTdd. Standard triple barrel bluff vs good reg? Quote

          
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