PLO 5card hand at Aria - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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PLO 5card hand at Aria

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12-13-2024 , 08:30 PM

Pokerbros_Player

adept

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 832

situation: 5-5-10/20 (rock) game at aria

hero has 3K, V1 and V2 both cover, another guy V3 has around 1K, V1 is loose/aggro/fishy

my hand: AA245 ds

V2 open to 70, i call, V3 calls, V1 raises to 200, V2 calls, now it's on me.

question: Flat 200 or reraise to 900ish?

my thought process: aces are ds, which is good, but side cards are obv very bad, also it's 5 card PLO. i know for a fact that nobody will fold to my reraise. So the trade off is getting in more money pre with my hands basically face up more or less, vs just calling, disguising my hand strength and getting paid if i hit anything decent.

thoughts?

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12-16-2024 , 09:34 AM

thegibson

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 1,541

sidecards in 5cplo are more important than in any other game. plus V3 can back jam vs the 200 and give us an opportunity to re-rip pre if your feeling froggy.

but i would just flat, flat and make a decision if V3 jams. our hand doesnt flop very smooth so we want to get in cheap. this hand just sucks bc we never have nut straight.

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12-16-2024 , 11:53 AM

wazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 15,659

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegibson

bc we never have nut straight.

Anytime a wheel is the nuts with a 3 on board we will have the nut straight and top set. While we obviously block a lot of the ways that can happen, we also mildly benefit from the Matusow effect where our low cards are more likely to be live in a bit multiway pot as everyone likes high cards.

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12-16-2024 , 02:49 PM

Pokerbros_Player

adept

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazz

All obv correct, but you’re saying I should have repopped pre??

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12-16-2024 , 02:50 PM

Pokerbros_Player

adept

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegibson

Yep, my thinking as well, which is why I flatted

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12-16-2024 , 06:07 PM

pokerfan655

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 2,368

I would think with v1 being loose/aggro/fishy we should reraise and push our equity advantage. A lot of money out there and vs 1 caller get a PSB left OTF.

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12-16-2024 , 06:10 PM

wazz

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Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 15,659

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player

All obv correct, but you’re saying I should have repopped pre??

In general if I don't give a response it's because I'm not sure. That's partly because it seems close and partly because I'm gigantically out of practice in 5c and if someone respectable came in and said '100% 4b' it wouldn't surprise me and neither would '0% 4b'

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12-16-2024 , 08:26 PM

Pokerbros_Player

adept

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

I would think with v1 being loose/aggro/fishy we should reraise and push our equity advantage. A lot of money out there and vs 1 caller get a PSB left OTF.

thats not the way the game ran, a 4 bet by me would have gotten 4 callers ... and then i really don't like my aces (especially bc of the weak side cards) anymore

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12-16-2024 , 08:27 PM

Pokerbros_Player

adept

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazz

got you.
so it's a close one, and then i'm fine with playing the lower variance way

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12-17-2024 , 02:41 AM

#10

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,281

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player

thats not the way the game ran, a 4 bet by me would have gotten 4 callers ... and then i really don't like my aces (especially bc of the weak side cards) anymore

I mean if you get 4 callers and you have two potential nut fds in a massive pot that commits ~everybody with all kind of trash?

You have something like 31% in a 5-way pot (11% extra).

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12-17-2024 , 04:08 AM

#11

Pokerbros_Player

adept

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginary F(r)iend

I mean if you get 4 callers and you have two potential nut fds in a massive pot that commits ~everybody with all kind of trash?

You have something like 31% in a 5-way pot (11% extra).

How exactly did you get to that number, the 31%? Thx

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12-17-2024 , 06:02 AM

#12

PokerZil

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2024 Posts: 239

Its obv reraise. The helper cards arent as bad you think they are.

We get low spr flop and basically never make mistake. The odd free money fold pre etc.

If they all call pre with ****, you print...in the long run.

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12-17-2024 , 06:29 AM

#13

Pokerbros_Player

adept

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerZil

i agree with everything you say if we talk 4 card plo.
imo for 5 card it needs to be adapted, just not exactly sure how, or where to draw the line (meaning not 4bet with aces)

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12-17-2024 , 08:10 AM

#14

PokerZil

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2024 Posts: 239

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player

i agree with everything you say if we talk 4 card plo.
imo for 5 card it needs to be adapted, just not exactly sure how, or where to draw the line (meaning not 4bet with aces)

You can refine your line with solver. I can guarantee however that solver reraises here.

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12-17-2024 , 11:57 AM

#15

pokerfan655

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 2,368

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player

thats not the way the game ran, a 4 bet by me would have gotten 4 callers ... and then i really don't like my aces (especially bc of the weak side cards) anymore

Nothing wrong with that - you're still pushing a great equity position but of course there's heavy variance going multi way. If you were say 5-6k deep yeh this should be played much differently but with these stacks I'd be looking to get in as much as possible.

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12-17-2024 , 11:58 AM

#16

pokerfan655

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 2,368

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player

How exactly did you get to that number, the 31%? Thx

Pro Poker Tools - free tool, can select 5 card or even 6 card and run an equity sim.

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12-17-2024 , 12:29 PM

#17

Pokerbros_Player

adept

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

Pro Poker Tools - free tool, can select 5 card or even 6 card and run an equity sim.

Oh, cool, didn’t know they can do 5 cards also.
Thx for the info

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12-17-2024 , 01:12 PM

#18

Imaginary F(r)iend

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 3,281

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfan655

Pro Poker Tools - free tool, can select 5 card or even 6 card and run an equity sim.

Exactly how I came up with 31%

Ofc there are still tricky post flop spots and the variance is going to be huge but it still should print.

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12-17-2024 , 01:29 PM

#19

Pokerbros_Player

adept

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imaginary F(r)iend

Exactly how I came up with 31%

Ofc there are still tricky post flop spots and the variance is going to be huge but it still should print.

I mean, 31% multi way like this is huge … wasn’t expecting that

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12-17-2024 , 09:28 PM

#20

monikrazy

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Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,577

When V1 has exactly 1k, this is most likely a lean raise, because both squeezing out a third player some of the time and better realizing post-flop equity is +EV. Probably a click-it-back 400-500 type sizing the best for this exact reason.

But mixing in some flats is also probably completely fine, since Hero can safely fold most textures post-flop 3w. I think we prefer some raises to protect Hero's overall range even though this hand can be considered a below average aaxxx.

but I also can't tell what position Hero and villain have

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12-18-2024 , 04:41 AM

#21

Pokerbros_Player

adept

Join Date: Aug 2021 Posts: 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by monikrazy

Min re raise is interesting, didn’t think about that one.
With my table image there, it’s 100% clear I’m playing aces then … don’t you think the downside of this is bigger than the upside of getting in more money pre?

Btw: I got Position on the whale, with 2 people acting behind me

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12-18-2024 , 02:54 PM

#22

monikrazy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerbros_Player

Quote:

Originally Posted by monikrazy

Min re raise is interesting, didn’t think about that one.
With my table image there, it’s 100% clear I’m playing aces then … don’t you think the downside of this is bigger than the upside of getting in more money pre

Btw: I got Position on the whale, with 2 people acting behind me

No. For me this looks more like a spot where players taking a passive line in an effort to reduce variance are losing a lot more $EV than they realize.

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12-19-2024 , 12:00 PM

#23

Javanewt

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15,784

I can go either way, but I like a raise vs. V1's raise.

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12-20-2024 , 07:28 PM

#24

PokerZil

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2024 Posts: 239

Quote:

Originally Posted by monikrazy

No. For me this looks more like a spot where players taking a passive line in an effort to reduce variance are losing a lot more $EV than they realize.

Exactly.