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07-22-2008 , 07:37 AM
$1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Hi
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Villian is unknown, I just sat down so I had no reads.

Stacks:
UTG MaxAvail ($478.10)
CO OnniTheDog ($301.35)
BTN bbwsop ($495.30)
SB kingkongkingking ($302.94)
BB Hero ($200.00)

Hero is dealt: A K Q K in BB

Pre-flop: ($3, 5 players)
1 fold, OnniTheDog calls $2, bbwsop calls $2, kingkongkingking raises to $10, Hero calls $8, OnniTheDog calls $8, bbwsop calls $8

Flop: 3 T J ($40, 4 players)
kingkongkingking checks, Hero checks, OnniTheDog bets $40, 1 fold, kingkongkingking folds, Hero raises to $160, OnniTheDog goes all-in $280, Hero goes all-in $30

How would you play the flop and why?
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07-22-2008 , 02:11 PM
i would probably just c/c flop and see a turn with planning on possibly bluffing clubs. you should in general be careful with straightdraws on flushy boards. being oop hurts your implied odds tho, so it might be okay getting it in here with an overpair + a so-so wrap draw (u block a lot of ur own outs). however, i'm not a big fan of that play, so i'd either c/c or c/f.
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07-22-2008 , 02:29 PM
I'm folding because we're probably coin-flipping against his range, and I'm a pussy and hate variance.
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07-22-2008 , 03:22 PM
c/c would be my line here I think... and I like Sh1lla's thinking on bluffing a club turn since you have the nut blocker w/ the Ac.. or c/r if you hit wrap or K on the turn.

You didn't play it too bad though because you have some FE against like top 2 or bottom set..

I suck at Omaha though.. so I'm not really sure what the optimal line is here...
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07-22-2008 , 04:09 PM
Looks like he's never folding after he pots the flop.
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07-22-2008 , 04:25 PM
With A clubs you effectively have the nut flush draw if you have enough chips back after it hits to represent it. Raising the flop removes this option.

You have 4 nines, 2 kings and 3 queens. so it's a smidge better than open ended but easier to consider it just an open ended. The overpair may have some showdown value but it's not a lot to be basing a shove on IMO.

Shoving gets fold equity and 9 outs twice for a straight if that fails, calling gives you 9 outs to the straight (which may not get paid off) and 7 outs to a club for a good chance to bluff.

You've got more chance of winning by shoving but you're paying more for the chance and I don't think you've got enough equity when called to justify it.

Therefore I check call and plan on donking a good turn but probably folding to serious aggression there. In many ways your call is scarier for him than a shove because you clearly want HIM to see a turn.
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07-23-2008 , 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by That Foreign Guy
With A clubs you effectively have the nut flush draw if you have enough chips back after it hits to represent it. Raising the flop removes this option.

You have 4 nines, 2 kings and 3 queens. so it's a smidge better than open ended but easier to consider it just an open ended. The overpair may have some showdown value but it's not a lot to be basing a shove on IMO.

Shoving gets fold equity and 9 outs twice for a straight if that fails, calling gives you 9 outs to the straight (which may not get paid off) and 7 outs to a club for a good chance to bluff.

You've got more chance of winning by shoving but you're paying more for the chance and I don't think you've got enough equity when called to justify it.

Therefore I check call and plan on donking a good turn but probably folding to serious aggression there. In many ways your call is scarier for him than a shove because you clearly want HIM to see a turn.
Um, he has 9 NUT outs for a straight - you didn't include the 3 aces for the broadway straight. He also has 3 club outs to a straight. If he makes a straight with a king he has redraws. He might also win with a 3 or a running small pair. Or he might win with 2 blanks on turn and river.

I'm never folding this flop, but I think OP is usually going to be behind (40-60, 30-70) or at best flipping coins at this point. I think I like your bottom line of check/call, donk a good turn but please calculate your outs better.
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07-23-2008 , 09:58 AM
Check call on flop, and hope to hit nut str8 on the turn, or a club, so you can take him off it.

Getting it in vs. this player on the flop, with your holding is bad, as he is quite nittish, and will show up with at least middle set, but more often shows up with set & clubs, or combo str8/club re-draw.
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07-23-2008 , 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim T
Um, he has 9 NUT outs for a straight - you didn't include the 3 aces for the broadway straight. He also has 3 club outs to a straight. If he makes a straight with a king he has redraws. He might also win with a 3 or a running small pair. Or he might win with 2 blanks on turn and river.

I'm never folding this flop, but I think OP is usually going to be behind (40-60, 30-70) or at best flipping coins at this point. I think I like your bottom line of check/call, donk a good turn but please calculate your outs better.
****, and I'm usually overestimating the number of outs I have too

I don't think the 3 or running small pair are good enough often enough to count as outs, but other than that, yeah that was a bad estimation by me.
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