V1: Just sat down, this is maybe his 4th hand (first hand flopped quads). People saying he is competent, but no-one at the table has shown much competence at PLO. (Playing a home game that was Holdem and moved to PLO). $1,100

V2: Very bad PLO player. Calling station with inferior holdings, but has won a few big pots and is excitedly sitting on a decent stack. Seems to love drawing to flushes and playing two-pair type hands. $1,200 (UTG Straddle)

Hero: Never played in this room before. Lost a few buyins in holdem, but have for the most part rebuilt in PLO. Not sure my image necessarily is being considered much in this spot, as you will see from the way the hand plays out below. Although V2 has been berating me for calling her down a few times with straights on paired boards, for whatever thats worth. Covers (BB)

For some reason the open is to $25 despite it being 2/5, and there is a Mississippi straddle going, but not on the this hand.

6 handed

Onto the hand. V2 straddles UTG for $25. V1 calls $25 UTG+1. folds to hero in the BB who calls $20 more with 6678. Straddler checks option.

Flop ($75) 459
Hero leads $75, V2 calls $75, V1 raises to $225, hero?

So I'm in fairly good shape against top set with no flush draw. Have to imagine that V1 is fairly weighted towards sets and big draws included NFD in this spot if he is solid, plus I'm blocking alot of the wrap hands. V2 kind of anyones guess with the call, but I would assume some kind of draw, most likely .

So do we peel one card or do we raise with pot being to ~$875 (so leaving only like $200 behind)? I'm assuming no-one is folding at this point.

My initial thought was B/3b > B/C > B/F, but very rusty in PLO so wanted to check. Obviously x/c is likely an option here as well, although it was not really available to me at decision time.

Have a few more thoughts, but will share after some comments.

Thanks.

Old school saying, "don't go broke in limped pots."
New school saying, "don't go broke in high stack-to-pot-ratio situations."

You are out of position. You did not raise pre-op so you are not stuck with any kind of initiative. Being out of position without the initiative is a great time to check flop almost in any situation let alone yours

I'd pump this up pre

As played, gii, you have massive equity against any 4 cards except maybe something like KdK67d

10 nut outs. you will be getting 4:1 if the other guy calls behind and are 3.5:1 against improving to the nuts. V2 could have been slowplaying on the flop and raise behind you, but this isn't really a night mare scenario since you might have the equity to stack off three way anyway and I think it is pretty unlikely compared to the % chance that he just calls. you definitely have some implied odds here if you hit.

see the turn.

I'd raise without thinking to much about it... I also think if you get v2 out by raising, that's correct play.

Calling as played, I don't mind leading the flop but at least a bit smaller as we don't want to jam with this exact hand vs a good player this deep (even against the fish its not great)

x/r line also strong

TY for the comments.

comments seem a bit both ways, as raising OOP would bloat the pot I think and generally make it tougher to play, but given results maybe I missed two ways to bet people out.

Ultimately I B/3b, V2 calls, V1 ships and all 3 GII

V1 had 99JA for top set no redraw with 1
V2 had AQ45 with nut diamonds

So obviously my hand had tremendous equity as I figured in game and sort of better due to V2, which in game I wanted to realize without having a challenging turn spot. Maybe I got myself in the spot by playing OOP, but seemed like the easiest play.

Given the turn, had I called, I maybe could have bet them off the hand with 1 pot sized bet left effective and no idea if they had money behind (home game again).

The more I think about it I wonder if the turn is easy to play correctly even if OOP. Although I probably x/c all-in (effective) on most blank turns anyway, which again I'm not sure is right.

And if it is right. Then isn't B/3b/GII the best play? Again looking for reasoning, as other plays feel right given results, but a bit of results oriented thinking maybe

Anyway Turn is 8 and river is the final 9 given V1 quads...

Running the numbers you got it in with 28.2% 3way, hardly a great situation when we can call and fold bad turns

Isoing either player isn't exactly a win, getting it in against a bare set without any blockers to our draws is 39.2%, if we got it in HU vs the 2 pair bigger flush we'd be at a bit less with 35.9%

The major reason we rarely want to get it this deep is we are never equity favorites, we should be behind any bigger diamond draw getting it in, sometimes we are severely dominated.. ie a hand like tt76 with 2 diamonds completely crushes us

This hand looks better than it is, it is not nearly as strong as a full wrap, the 2nd 6 is mostly useless, we would much prefer a pair on the board or additional straight outs

Omaha Hi Simulation ?
666 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 9d5d4c
Hand Equity Wins Ties
6d6h7h8d 37.99% 253 0
9c9hJdAs 45.95% 306 0
AdQd4s5c 16.07% 107 0

My equity agrees with Omaha fanatic and one of the sixes gives a straight flush draw so 3 blockers against bare NFD...but still sorta agree with monki

Maybe a MOD can delete my previous post?


Some of my numbers were way off, was on my phone so idk exactly what happened.. still stand my point that 3betting the flop is not a good idea at these stack depths, might come back and do some better calcs in a bit


main 2 reasons are

1. we miss the chance to fold bad turns

and

2.
its possible to get it in severely dominated.. ie a hand like tt76 with 2 diamonds completely crushes us.. or we could get it in against a true wrap and a bigger diamond draw, we can get it in with less than 20% equity

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: 954

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
8d6d6h7h	20.86%	60,732	128,977
76:25%6h, 876:40%6h	17.91%	42,314	130,489
ada:dd	61.23%	366,332	2,194

Are you folding any turns besides those that pair the board?

We have the 8 & 6 , therefore it's hard for villain to have a lot of the hands you're worried about.

For example, TT76 with diamonds can only be with TxT76x. Of course, you can expand this to TT+, but it ends up being an incredibly narrow range.

Wraps with higher diamonds have to be as follows: [A-T]8x76x. Again, very narrow and specific.

The decision to 3-bet or just call is about weighing several factors, the most notable being:

(1) If we 3-bet, do we cause Villain 2 to fold out any higher flush draws? We should not expect him to ever fold a nut flush draw, but those lower than a nut flush draw will often fold, thus promoting the value of our own flush draw.

(2) If we just call, do we outperform or underperform our EV on certain turns as compared to just jamming flop? I expect that we will save money on board pairing turns, as well as make less on flush completing turns (given we will be up against a higher flush more often when we just call). In total, we save on board pairing turns and may have poor implied odds and even some reverse implied odds on flushing turns. For example, when the flush completes on the turn, we are going to be unable to lead there given the presence of villain 2. When we check and villain 2 bets, we are going to have to fold since his range should be weighted heavily towards flushes. When Villain 2 checks, villain 1 will check behind to give himself a chance to fill up on the river. All in all, we don't get to maximize our EV on these flushing turns.

Considering #2, it should be clear that we don't gain much by calling as compared to 3-betting. It's possible that we may gain some EV but, it's definitely not a slam dunk.

Combine that with the ability to get Villain #2 to fold a higher flush draw, I think we should be 3-betting the flop.

You said V1 is competent, so I would remove a lot of sets from his range. Not a lot of 44xx 55xx 99xx hands should be limping UTG. I'd weight it more strongly towards NFD + GS, big pair + big diamond draw. V2's range very wide, doesn't have to have diamonds.

I'd call, since you still have a decent amount of nut outs. Don't necessarily fold if the board pairs and he barrels.