Yea, this is true. I pretty much only play on Stars, so I've been a Supernova for the past couple of years. I can't really play on FTP because the software doesn't run smoothly at all for me, and it also glitches out a lot. I also don't have access to the Euro-sites and a put a huge premium on financial peace of mind, so I prefer to avoid the smaller and/or newer sites.

Thanks for the links, PartysOver. I've never seen that site before.

Using their calculator, it shows a RB % of 25% at PLO50 and 57% (wow!) at PLO100.

I get ~25% at 50/1 plo for myself

You have entered an MGR of 1662.88 over 12931 hands with a 0.616 VPP per hand at a value of $0.056 per hand.
The rakeback equivalent is 26.8250129895 percent.

Yea, it seemed high to me too. As it turns out, I'm an idiot and forgot to turn off the rake filter in PTO: PLO100 is actually ~26%. I'm not sure how to explain the discrepancy, other than maybe I shouldn't have included the approximate value of the FPPs I had when I did the initial estimation.

Got a question guys:

I play PLO50 HU from time to time and I am doing good, but I usually give up 1/2 to 1 buyin and grind it back with some interest.

Villains are weaktight and usually passive, especially in the beginning.
I usually play an aggressive style and bluff a lot early.

should I play more value poker in the beginning and run big bluffs afterwards?

once you get to at least the first milestone, your 'rakeback' percentage takes a big jump forward.

adjusted for a goal of 600k VPP, using 4k bonus.. ($/vpp in second link)

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $50.05
Hero (BTN/SB): $51.70

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN/SB with 4 cards
Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.00) 7 J K (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, BB raises to $9, Hero raises to $29.85, BB raises to $48.55 all in, Hero calls $18.70

Turn: ($100.10) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($100.10) 7 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $100.10
BB shows 5 K 4 5 (two pair, Kings and Sevens)


Ok so this is really early in the match.
Is it standard for him to go broke there?

def not, I'd rather C/R the flop with air there or gutshot so I could more easily fold, but I think getting it in sucks early in match
an undercard and underpair really aren't adding anything to this one

thought this might be worth reading
Its a article from jeff hwangs new book

http://www.cardplayer.com/author/article/all/310/14997

Full Tilt Poker $1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN/SB): $1378.00
BB: $224.50

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BTN/SB with J 5 2 A
Hero raises to $6, BB raises to $18, Hero calls $12

Flop: ($36.00) 3 K A (2 players)
BB bets $36, Hero calls $36

Turn: ($108.00) 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($108.00) T (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $76, BB calls $76



I had no idea i was value betting

I hope his book sells really well...

Yes, in a typical aggro 6-max game, it's important to play pot control with middle set instead of making a big pot. LOLOL! Has this guy ever even played online before? The fact that he's treated like some kind of guru is hilarious to me.

very stealthmunkish of you.

I'm sick of this little BS where no one's supposed to be wrong and we're supposed to treat everyone's opinions equally. He was writing a list of the biggest leaks beginning players have in SH play and one he listed was playing too aggressively hands like middle set and bottom set. Come on, that's crazy. There's no way that belongs near the Top 100 leaks for players SH, as >90% of the time, raising and reraising is correct with those hands, and folding's correct more often that flat-calling is.

I thought the purpose of this forum was for people to improve their game and make more money. While egotistical dick-waving challenges definitely run counter to that on the one side, so does being afraid to have an opinion and acting like every possible way to play a hand is equal and that it's egotistical to strongly assert that one play is correct over another.

I'm still very open-minded when looking at the actions of good thinking players. Gordo for example has a completely different style than I do, playing relatively passive post-flop and finding pot control lines in spots where I'd never think of it, and I always look attentively at his advice and try to find ways to incorporate it into my own game. This article that Hwang wrote has a couple good points mixed in here and there, but over half of it is laughably bad and that's pretty much incontrovertible.

Though a nice guy, Jeff really doesn't play PLO much, if at all, these days. The few times we have played, his play has been rather sporadic and for the most part bad. That said, his advice is definitely pretty strong for players that are just looking to get into the game or transition from hold 'em; most good players are intelligent enough to realize when someone is advocating an overly nitty approach, and since it is almost unequivocally the biggest leak of new players to overplay merginal holdings in PLO, I don't think this article really deserves too much heat.

fwiw, I also disagree with that article. I only made reference to the way you decided to voice your disagreement. Surely you can see the irony. If not, it begins roughly 100 posts ago. I do not wave my dick at you sir.

I've only been posting for a year or so but I didn't realize poker players were such tetchy bitches lol. Refreshing change I guess

I think it's a giant myth that PLO offers higher winrates over a large sample. Lately, I see more and more NLH 100K+ hands graphs w/ a winrate of 7-8ptbb/100 and haven't seen a PLO one in quite a while. I wonder why people keep on transitioning from NLH to PLO thinking it's more profitable. It's true though that due to short term variance PLO can make you or brake you in a matter of weeks.

How many of those graphs are 6-max? While there are a lot of people out there beating the HU games for the winrates you mention, I don't think it's possible to beat the mid-stakes 6-max NLHE games for more than 3-4 PTBB/100 long-term.

I think the winrates in the games are pretty comparable, although with the increase hands/hour in NL it's probably a better hourly.

Also, who is jeff hwang? honest question.


also, if he plays online his sn better be H_Wang

I have no idea, but I tend to remember his bio in the books forum consisting of playing mainly the live games of the new orleans (?) area, which explains his first book basically dealing with pf play and not bothering with anything postflop

qualifications required to write a book on plo:


1)desire to write book on plo

He made some contributions in this thread

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38...t-leak-272672/

His full ring book was mostly about hand selection. What I remember from this thread is that he said he plays around 40% VPIP at 6max. He said he plays a ton of hands in position because people are not a favorite to be able to get to showdown out of position.