I've been pondering this scenario lately. In very loose games facing a raise with a good nutty potential hand, should I 3-bet? Example from today:

Bad LAG cutoff opens to pot, I hold AK67 otb, players in the blinds are very loose (and bad) players. 3-bet or no?

i'm confused do you have AK67 or a good hand?

Actually the propokertools ordering for 10 handed full ring PLO puts this hand pretty close to the top :

http://www.propokertools.com/orderings/ohordering.txt

right below QJQ8 ds. I guess the power of the nut suits is not to be underestimated.

and - o m g - better than KQJT ds.

3 posts. None of them pertain to my question. Much appreciated.

A cool story: I 3-bet KQT9ds tonight and lost a stack

Not a PLO expert but the questions I'd ask myself:

Are the loose blinds going to come along very often when you 3 bet?

Do you gain any pre and post flop fold equity vs these opponents?

How deep is everyone?

Our hand is good enough to play, but realistically doesn't push a tonne of equity so I'd be less inclined to 3bet, especially since we have no fold equity against loose players who will call/ cold call with whatever they have anyway.

In spots where I'm facing an open IP against very loose players behind who are likely to call with pretty much any 4, and even cold-call if I 3bet I prefer to keep my 3-bet range tight to hands that I can push an equity edge with or hands that flop very well in multi-way pots (lots of nut potential).

If I know there's some fold equity against the blinds in this spot and I can take the hand heads up against CO a decent amount I don't mind 3betting here.

Instinctively, with a good double-suited hand against a bad lag you should be 3betting. I think there's more value in charging garbage to see flops and turns than there is nut-peddling. The main reason I would just call is if I'm worried about 4bets.

- how often does he 4bet? the more often he does, the less we should 3bet hands like this that play not so good vs. a 4bet range
- how weak/crazy is he post-flop? the more of either, the more value in isolating him
- the blinds need to be real droolers for u not to want to 3bet here. it's a really strong hand that flops nutty combo draws a lot

as you know, pushing equity isn't the only reason and often isn't the primary reason that we 3bet a hand. for example, JT98ds isn't a favorite over too many ranges, yet is an automatic 3bet for most player in most spots. but this hand is a 54% favorite or so vs. a 30% opening range, which is on the tighter side for someone's CO RFI% who is described as LAG. simply playing a HU pot IP with a somewhat nutty and somewhat deceptive hand with initiative is a good enough reason to 3bet, especially when the villain is opening wide

Thanks for the replies guys.

passing, those first two points aren't to important to me as I play at Bovada
for the third point, as I said, I play at Bovada, so there's a drooler in the blinds quite a bit. they'll also coldcall some oddly high % of the time (I'd say >30% of 3-bets are cc'ed).

IMO, when we 3bet IP, the vast majority of the time we are pushing our positional advantage (ability to realize the equity in the pot) rather than hand equity.

If I bad player is opening, I am inclined to 3bet the vast majority of my double suited hands, specifically those that play well against a 4bet. In fact, my 3bet range is potentially greater than their opening range!

Isn't this specific hand pretty bad against a 4-bet? I understand 3-betting weaker ds hands for sure.

I'm not lazy though, I'm checking on PPT too, just throwing out my intuition here.

edit: AK67 does better against top 10% of hands whereas Q967ds does better against specifically AA. No shocker there. Given the AAxx heaviness of 4-bets at 50nl, I'd think 3-betting the latter is better.

I would say that if the blinds are loose and bad and make a habit of ccing 3bets, this hand is even more of a slam dunk 3bet than it already is. You are 55% pf vs a 40% CO opening range, this hand plays extremely well HU and multiway , and can stand up to a 4bet - which vs a loose LAG should be 4betting OOP CO vs BTN with a lot of AKTxss type hands.


Against specifically AA yes, but try and think about it range vs. range. A loose LAG, along with some good regs I know will be 4betting pf instead of getting stuck OOP with a higher SPR with hands that don't have good playability vs a pf3b - think AKT7ss and AQQss. And to balance the higher 4betting frequency, they will fold more often to 3bets. This is all assuming the BTN is 3betting CO opens at a normal to slightly high frequency.

Did a quick PPT breakdown, and against a 5% 4b range OOP, the hands are nearly even.

AK76ds is even better than that against a 4b due to card removal. When the CO is opening $FI40, and 4-betting that particular range, he 4-bets ~14% of the time when we have Q976ds and only ~10% of the time when we have AK76ds.

Re .isolated: I'm not even sure that AK76ds is that much worse against an all-AA 4-betting range: yeah it has 37% in that case, vs. Q976ds's 43%, but it's also facing a 4-bet about half as often, which is a lot. Either way, AA-heavy 4-bet ranges are by definition infrequent when the opener is loose, so how you do against a 4-bet shouldn't be a driving concern.

I'm confused; you've been playing this game how long? And don't even know a good hand from a bad hand?

So far up to $50 I haven't seen a 4-bet+ that isn't AA from a reasonable player.

Possibilities: you are not 3betting enough, you are in a good game.