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How deep do I need to be to fade AAxx?(Warning: Long and SUPER-INTERESTING) How deep do I need to be to fade AAxx?(Warning: Long and SUPER-INTERESTING)

03-18-2008 , 04:05 PM
Hi,

I used the search feature to try to answer this question, and found very little that was helpful beyond evidence that others have the same questions. Humor me if you know some of these off the top of your head, or ignore the post I guess, if it's just an annoying noob thread.

I played this hand today, as I learn the game.

Poker Stars $1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Shorty(MP): $48.40
??? (CO): $600.15
Hero (BTN): $312.75
??? (SB): $40.45
Fish Villain 2 (BB): $110.50
LAG Villain (UTG): $236.90

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with 6 6 5 7
LAG Villain raises to $7, Shorty raises to $24, 1 fold, Hero calls $24, 1 fold, Fish Villain 2 calls $22, LAG Villain raises to $121, Shorty calls $24.40 all in, Hero calls $97, Fish Villain 2 calls $86.50 all in

Flop: ($401.90) 4 7 5 (4 players - 2 are all in)
LAG Villain bets $115.90 all in, Hero calls $115.90

Turn: ($633.70) 9 (4 players - 3 are all in)

River: ($633.70) 3 (4 players - 3 are all in)



FWIW, the original raiser is a LAG and I'm not sure if he's good or bad, but his distinguishing characteristic is that he raises a lot pf for a non-fish, and especially 3-bets pf often, with hands like AsJs9x8x, as well as with AAxx and maybe AKKx. Also, he bluffs a lot post-flop. His initial raise means any playable hand in that spot (and he's not real picky imo), and the shorty's reraise is probably a good hand. Unknown Villain is a total fish who can have any 4, and the LAG seems to me to be the type to look to knock me out with a somewhat wide range of hands (like those above), looking to flip with an overlay against someone. I'd say he's a favorite to have AAxx, though, so was my call: a clear mistake? automatic? in between? How much does possible duplication between the LAG and the shorty affect my decision? I would've definitely folded AKQJ, btw; not sure if that's right or wrong.

Thanks for reading this far. Bonus questions below!

I've read that with AAxx, you shouldn't make it obvious what you have unless you can get about half of your stack in pf. This doesn't automatically that your opponent will not be able to profitably call you, I think, just because you're able to make a bet this large. But, I haven't worked out how often I'll hit the kind of flop I'm hoping for, nor do I know the answer to a few other questions: What kind of implied odds do I need when my opponent surely has AAxx of varying quality, and I have a hand like 5678 badugi? suited? what about 5567 (as below)? Also, how big of a flop can I afford to pass on if I take these "minimum" odds? In other words, if I have T987, the pot is 200, and we both have 100 left, can I ever pass on a non-ace, unpaired flop where I flop one pair (742r)? It doesn't seem like it. What if he has a PSB left, and there's a flush draw that I don't have, though?
How deep do I need to be to fade AAxx?(Warning: Long and SUPER-INTERESTING) Quote
03-18-2008 , 04:44 PM
Don't cold-call for half of the effective stacks here, especially with a pair in your hand. You really shouldn't put in more than 20% of effective stacks w/a rundown when you're cold-calling a reraise with no money invested.
How deep do I need to be to fade AAxx?(Warning: Long and SUPER-INTERESTING) Quote
03-18-2008 , 05:12 PM
Your hand has several things working against it.

1. As Iggy mentioned, the pair is generally bad.
2. It's three suited.
3. It's on the low end.

These three factors combined mean I probably wouldn't cold call in the first place, but would definitely fold when it got back around to me. I probably wouldn't even limp this hand in EP unless there were a bunch of terrible players in LP or the blinds who limped a lot and went crazy on the flop.

If you were double suited, I would probably play it the same way. If you were single suited with 4567 I'd still fold, since the lag's repopping range is huge and you are never crushing him, so you are basically hoping for a spot where you are extremely live. 6789-89TJ, with one gap, single suited, I'd probably play the same way.
How deep do I need to be to fade AAxx?(Warning: Long and SUPER-INTERESTING) Quote
03-18-2008 , 06:15 PM
For all the reasons above... I fold.
How deep do I need to be to fade AAxx?(Warning: Long and SUPER-INTERESTING) Quote
03-19-2008 , 06:01 AM
I probably fold to the first 24 not closing the betting.
How deep do I need to be to fade AAxx?(Warning: Long and SUPER-INTERESTING) Quote

      
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