I think WAZZ nailed the gambling problem, I read the thread yesterday and thought the same. You clearly have one, you said yourself leaving poker was not an option, for someone contemplating suicide, I think that says a lot.
I didn't say anything becuase frankly, most of us are functioning profitable addicts. We think becuase we are winning we are not addicts, but we are. Who are we to give advice on walking away.
A job could def help with your financial situation. Volunteering will do a lot more for your emotional well-being and social life, if you can find the time, and an organization that you support you will not regret this. As many have said keep getting help and talking to people who are important to you. GL DB

There's nothing for me to say that hasn't already been suggested in this thread, however I do not agree with the latter of krmont's msg. I really can't see how you can grind online part-time whilst having a part-time job... you will simply lose value for money (since poker is all you have done so far in life).

ie. you just make a sick bluff for $500 online and then you have to go to work and realise you need to work 50 hours (or whatever your wage is) just to recoup this single pot which occured in the matter of seconds. On the other hand, you have a sick $2k session and may think, whats the point of going to work? It'll take you a month to earn what you just made in a few hours with a job, so f**k it and you quit your job.

However, you most definitely can play part-time whilst studying. I can only suggest study and slowly play parttime, or quit poker altogether and start working.


Good luck

Our situations and lives are very different but this paragraph is way too close to home for me not to say something. I don't want to write the story here, let's just say a year and a half ago I was almost exactly how you describe yourself in this paragraph and now I'm doing a lot better.

The hardest thing to understand for people who haven't been there is that being really depressed is completely disorienting. The worst part isn't that everything feels like ****, it is that you have no idea where to aim or how to judge if you are making progress. So you just don't try, instead of trying and seeing only minor short-term benefit.

You have to suck it up and try anyway or the process never starts. The only thing you can do now is decide you want a better life eventually, try to do new things, and let the first step set up the rest. The goal of trying stuff right now isn't to fix your life, it is to fix how you look at life so later you can fix your life.

Try several ways to spend your time productively, consider several paths to being an self-sufficient adult, listen to advice and observe what balanced people around you are doing to be balanced. Definitely stick with meds. I have a really hard time believing you can pull yourself out without school or a non-poker job, but the exact details can go in any of hundreds of directions and none of us really know enough to judge if poker can play a role too.

You have tons of time, you just have get out of the house and start firing. Don't evaluate yourself on what happens in the short term. You have to flail around some to learn how to assess the options and the person you'll be when you're through this is not in charge of your brain right now.

You can hit me on skype any time to talk more

It's incorrect or at least misleading to say that all successful gamblers are problem gamblers. I think what separates the problem gambler from everyone else is that the problem gambler gets a rush out of losing, as well as a rush out of winning.

Just because we engage in habitual gambling for significant amounts of money and tie our success at poker to our happiness in some way does not mean we are all addicted to gambling. If the above was a definition of addiction, then I am also an addicted student, my mom is an addicted dietician, and my dad is an addicted computer programmer.

Gambling is certainly a more stressful activity than computer programming or being a student, and lends itself to self-destructive behavior. That doesn't mean that everyone who suffers stress caused by habitual gambling is an addicted gambler though.

Hit me up on Skype Sean... I don't have any available rooms, but you are more than welcomed to crash on my couch for as long as you want in Mexico and take your mind off of everything.

Sean has said before that he is agoraphobic (that he is afraid of the outside). So he probably won't start taking walks. Sean, sign up for a gym. Las Vegas Athletic club is only like $90 for 3 months last time I looked. Make it a point to go the gym for 30-60 minutes Every single day and just be active, do something, the whole time you are there. This is a great first step. Also, try and talk to someone new everytime you go there. Just talking to a few hot girls is a good first step out of a funk. Also, stay with therapy, no one in the thread is qualified to talk about it, but you clearly need some support. A vacation is a great idea too. Though I don't think you should move out of your support network/ therapy permanently. Steel108's offer is a really nice one. Def consider taking him up on it.
If you want to check out Austin Texas, you are invited to come down to my place. I do technically have a spare room, though there is nothing in it, so u would be couch surfing for now.
Look into taking some classes for sure. College is cool even if it doesn't seem like it right now. You definitely can be very good at many things outside of poker. Just a base level of mathematical knowledge and an above average intelligence gives you a big leg up in this world. Make poker a secondary part of your life for now. You have stopped playing, keep that break up. Just do positive things and make incremental improvements in your life every day.
Here is something that took me most of my 20s to learn, clean up your living area. Your personal space influences your mental state. When it is clean and ordered, you will feel better. I can refer you a number of a good maid in LV if you don't want to do it yourself.
Don't drink or do drugs when you are feeling down. It won't help. The only exception might be a party or a social gathering, then having a couple beers with other people who are drinking would be a net positive (you need social interaction). You are fun, cool dude who is still really young with so much ahead of you. Please stay strong and take care of yourself.
We care about you bro. Remember that.

There's a difference between being addicted to gambling and being a problem gambler. Mainly that the problem gambler generally makes negative expectation bets, gambles with money he can't afford to lose, ends up ruining his finances, and often resorts to desperate means to get money to gamble with. It's one thing to be obsessed with a gambling game, play too long or not be able to stick to limits you set for yourself when you play, and get carried away when you are the midst of a poker session with money you have built up through positive expectation play, it's quite another to max out all your credit cards and gamble with the rent money on a few hands of blackjack at the casino.

Also, just fyi, the theory about problem gamblers getting a rush from losing has been proven false. They've hooked up the brains of problem gamblers to some machine while they are gambling, and they have found that the drama of having a lot riding on something and everything hanging in the balance and the sweat of "almost winning" is what provides the dopamine rush, but immediately after the person realizes they have lost, the chemicals no longer get generated. So while the gambler has gotten their fix when they lose in a way, it is not the losing itself or the "self punishment" that they are getting their rocks off from.

I would say DB is addicted to gambling but I would not say he is a problem gambler, which is the same thing I would say about most successful players. Busting the 6 figure roll and then the 20k roll after is definitely very worrisome, but it's not abnormal for very accomplished and profitable players to get completely sick in the head and make some bad decision while losing / running bad, esp early in their career. I know I've done a ton of work on my mindset and I still get severely sick when I'm stuck unless I'm extremely vigilant.

My advice to DB, I don't think giving up poker permanently is the best option, since you are obv very talented and you don't seem to have any other good prospects, but I do think you need to do a lot of work on the mental side of the game, put precautions in place, and get perspective on the value of money. I would advise getting some $10/h job and working at it full time for a month, or even just a week. I think when you realize how long it can take to make money in the real world, it will give you much more respect for when you playing at mid and high stakes games and are tilting or considering moving up stakes to chase. When you do start playing again, I would advise keeping the absolute minimum you need to grind with online, and frequently cashing out, as having too much $ in your acct available to gamble with while losing has proved to be your downfall on 2 separate occasions. You should also consider reading/listening to some Jared Tendler / Tommy Angelo type mindset advice stuff if you haven't already.

And from a life perspective, I agree that you should prob seek out some professional help, but moreover, you should try to get yourself out there and meet new people (I think the college advice people suggested might be good advice solely for the fact you'll be forced to be out among other people), exercise as much as possible, eat very healthy, and try to force yourself to focus on your breathing and smile and laugh as much as possible. I know all these things will seem extremely daunting atm since you report being very depressed, but if you are able to consistently do them, trust me, you'll feel a ton better.

I feel your pain though man and hope things get better for you. I've been in the same type of mental state as you many times in my life, if you feel like talking with me more about this stuff feel free to add me on skype. GL

Edit: Also just wanted to say there's a ton of great advice from others in this thread, and think it's great we have such a smart and supportive community here. I think madscientist in the above post has very good suggestions that I completely agree with, esp avoiding substances while feeling lousy.

So did you end up selling your car? I think that's step 1.

It's hard to step away from something in which you had your identity. Also quick and easy success distorted your view of expectations. There are two ways to overcome this: quit poker or try to dig yourself out of a seemingly deep hole. Neither of these choices are really desirable but rather the consequences of bad decision making.

My advice would be to stop playing poker. It's way too much pressure to try to make up the hole you're in. It leads to desperation and dispair when things don't go the way you've been conditioned to expect. Go to school and develop some life skills. Poker will always be there and you'll realize that even after 1 mo or 1 year, the game doesn't change all that much. To think that everyone would have gained 20th level thinking while you're on 5th level is absurd. There are few guys I've played with in the last 8 years I've been playing that have actually improved. Mostly if they're fish then they'll stay fishy.

If you decide to try to dig yourself out of that hole, create a structured plan with your backers instead or shouldering the burden by yourself.

You're still young and have plenty of time to overcome this obstacle in your life.

Sorry to hear this, good luck man.

Try and think of some of the good things you have going for you...

Youth
Freedom
Health (assumption)
Opportunity
Above average intelligence
Lessons learned from poker

A lotta people would give up just about everything they have for some of these.

In your own way slowly try and figure out a way to get emotionally/mentally well. Make this a goal like you would a poker goal. Little steps like trying to get outside daily. Not getting any sun (vit D etc) can physically make things difficult even before the isolation etc. Given your circumstances it may not be easy, but make this your main focus. Forget poker for now.

There's a lot of good advice already in this thread and I'm sure it's been mentioned a lot but I think your absolute first priority should be your health. I think a lot of us are so cerebral that we tend to live our lives inside our heads at times instead of recognizing that "we" are much more than just our thoughts. Your mind controls your body, but your body can also control your mind. If your body is being neglected and you're living an unhealthy lifestyle (lack of activity, proper nutrition, sunlight, social activity, etcetc..) you're mind lacks the external stimulation it needs to be happy.

I recommend getting active and studying up on proper nutrition. Get into a daily life routine, minus the hours spent on your career. Once you've developed that stability from a health standpoint, you're ready to start doing whatever it is you want to do with your life careerwise.

Something else that I find helps with the draining mental stress associated with being a poker player is ensuring that you always have something in your life that means more to you than poker. Something that occupies your thoughts more on a daily basis to the point where poker truly is just your "job" and it's not your obsession. That thing can be anything like a sport, a gf, a hobby, etc..

The truth is you can give him all the advice in the world means nothing imo he knows exactly what to do and he knew this before he busted his Roll and before he busted his backers Roll but he practiced Bad BRM.

Stop chasing loses !!

He knows what to do its now up to him to do it or keep being Busto!!

I mean, that along with running very bad is what led to his current dilemma, but that it's in the past, and how to get back on his feet and start enjoying life again is what the biggest issue by far now. How to avoid crashing and burning when he builds a roll again is something that needs to prepared for and precautions taken against when he gets back in the swing of grinding though, I agree.

Also, simply telling someone not to do something that is bad for them is not particularly helpful, as knowing what you have to do is a good start, but actually having the discipline to execute in the heat of the moment of the true test. Your post reminds me a bit of Tommy Angelo recounting how people would tell him "You really should stop smoking cigs, it's bad for your health," and he would think to himself something like, "No ****ing ****, you think I don't know that? But it's a hell of a lot harder than just telling myself to stop and snapping my fingers and quitting for good."

It sucks cause we all want immediate gratification, but making almost any positive change in your life takes a ton of hard work and discipline, and a whole lot of vigilance against backsliding once you make progress.

Hey Sean, I dont have any advice or anything for you since I am not qualified, but wanted to wish you good luck.

Playing on a stake's a two-way street. Yeah, when you're in makeup it sucks, and it feels like you did something bad and somehow owe them the money, but at the same time, when you're winning they can make a massive, massive amount of money for doing absolutely nothing. You were one of the top HU PLO players online for a pretty solid period of time, and even at 60/40 it was a very +EV investment for them. It sounds like they're undercapitalized right now, and are probably pretty neutral on whether you even keep playing for them since they're trying to keep you at 2/2. I mean by all means, try to have a good talk with them and communicate about this stuff but the way you've described the situation I don't see any reason why you should play 2/2 with no cash coming back. If they wanna do a 50/25/25 split with 25% going to makeup, and 25% going to you, that would be a lot more reasonable, and is worlds better than working a menial job from a financial perspective.

I'm in an incredibly similar spot to you. I'm 21 and I busted a 170kish roll in JAnuary/February. I was getting things rolling again on FT then Black Friday happened. I was so concentrated on getting going again that I had absolutely no real money. I dropped out of UT Austin 1 year away from graduating early as well because of poker. I was completely broke, had less than 20 bucks at one point. I spiraled into complete depression because of all of this and it caused me to lose my girlfriend of 4 years that I had been living with. I ended up getting a stake but ran atrociously bad at live poker and now am in debt because of that. I think getting a job is absolutely insane. Youre just going to find a **** job where your weekly paycheck is in the 150-200 dollar range. Thats a complete joke compared to the money we are used to. It will probably make you feel worse about yourself actually. I think the best way to get your self esteem back and life on track would be to find a way to conquer poker again. Youll feel so much better once you get it back and keep it this time. Going to college is a really good idea too.

not sure if it was true that DB is agoraphobic in a few posts above, but i am too. i have never met another person who has been diagnosed with this condition before so im wondering if DB will confirm this. i dont suffer from depression, (which i imagine is much worse) but its a weird combination.

These plus lee jones' post. There isn't anything for me to add, but I wish you the best Sean and feel free to hit me up on Skype.

Its nice to see everyone ITT offering their support for DB and i really do wish u the best of luck with whatever u decide to do with your future..

Now more than ever people are using the shutdown of online poker as an opportunity to do others like school/work. Poker is an all encompassing game, and it is very hard to become a professional poker player... especially if u play plo for a living since the amount of volume you'd need to put in to outride variance is just insane.

I know DB is a talented poker player, but he isnt that much different in the sense that when he has money he plays higher, and when he is on a downswing he goes and plays gus at 500/1k. This is typical of the majority of poker players and people on this forum i believe.

While i do think seeking professional help is a good idea, i dont necessarily think it always works, as the % of relapse for problem gamblers is quite high.

I understand DB when he says he feels like he's entitled to something because he's spent so much time/effort on this game but i think the reality is that he just doesnt want to swallow his losses and walk away when he is down and out.

With the stakes DB was playing, this really could have happened to anybody so dont get too depressed; the reality is that u just kept taking marginally +ev shots that were out of your range and the swings eventually caught up with u.

He's a smart enough guy to make the right decision, and it took a lot of courage to post your problem on a public forum and i admire that.

Just because you're broke doesnt mean you are any less in life, a person is not necessarily what they have, where they are, or what their current life situation is at any point in time.


I sincerely wish u the best of luck

i was in sort of the same spot as you when i was around 20. I busted a 120k roll , but i probably tilted a bit more then you. Had to get a stake and felt pretty depressed about it and thought my life was over. And now I made close to a million since then. I think what you should do here are babysteps. Also given the skills you have I would not recommend quitting poker. Given the state of the games it is just too +ev for a skilled pokerplayer to not keep playing at least a few years. Especially in this economy.
And alot of people give really good advice here, but don't try it all at once.
You mentioned you have a bit of agoraphobia, I dont think its smart to make a list and plan out all sorts of things taht you need to go outside for, it will look like climbing the mount everest and you will give up on it. If you have some anxiety problems you should start with the things that wont upset you that much like going to the store every day. walk outside for 15 minutes. If you are doing that for like a week , make it a priority to also hit the gym or go outside running every day for an hour or something. when that goes well and seems less scary try to meet some new people, and try to get a certain structure in your day. I think it will all flow from there as you will feel better about yourself and the feeling worthless attitude will slowly dissapear. Just remember that there is no instant cure, or smart answer that will solve it all, you ahve to take action yourself and push yourself little by little. And right now you are overwhelmed by emotions. Your goal is to get your life in order so that emotions can make you feel bad, but never or rarely control your daily life. The more depressed the harder it is, but the only way out here is by taking action, and doing it in babysteps. Realize that every day when you just feel like staying in bed. And the more you conquer your fears, the stronger emotionally you get (sounds cliche yea).

i would also recommend getting roommates down the line. It seems you know alot about this game from reading your posts, and it wont be hard to find some other poker players who are up for this. And seeing people every day will also make you feel much better about yourself. It will also give some social support if you run bad or whatever. I think they did this test with rats once, where they made something bad happen to a few rats. They put one group in isolation after that and one group they put with his friends, and the ones that were around other rats actually recovered much faster. It makes so much difference if youre living with other people and you can even tell them like once every days how annoyed you are that you are running bad or whatever then when you live alone and dont see many people.

Also second lefort's and learnedfromtv's advice. Imo make some kind of plan where you put in all the advice you are given in this thread.
Gl with it

Roomies is def good idea down the line.

+1 on getting a job and everything in the lee jones post.

If your mother is in financial distress that is top of the list without a doubt, and working part time is +ev regardless. If you have no 'real life' debt then the situation is ok once you get a job. There is alot of bad advice ITT imo but won't pick it out.

Where would you play poker anyway don't you live in vegas and so are limited to merge online? **** that.

As for the like 'anti social' stuff.. go to the gym blablabla is all good, but on top of that communicate to yourself internally and get some fire/energy to motivate. Meditate and learn, read, Lock your soul up and take control. And the suicide ****, don't be a ****ing moron man, at the end of the day, life is amazing, even the ****tiest aspects of life, are still amazing simply because it's happening, wtf right? that ****ing chair, is being a chair, over there, OMFG!!! It could be worse and it could be better, ALWAYS. The sun alone is worth living for. I mean its good to not give a **** about dieng as this is a show of will, but not wanting to live because of your situation is just weak emo bullcrap and need to get some balls. You should be happy even living homeless because you'd ****ing own that **** right? There is so much in the world, and its pretty much all free.

Maybe get a dog.
And find a purpose in life which doesn't involve making lots of money which is +karma and helps the world.

this is so awesome lol

best of luck db. i think the piece of advice that everyone would agree on is you need to do SOMETHING consistently to start out. something like working out consistently might be a good start, or getting on a good sleep schedule. once you have created one good habit, try to add one more. obv its not gonna be easy with how you feel now, but it will get easier as you make these good habits a part of your everyday life. good luck.

Not really posting this as advice or speaking to OP, just since fishnoob's awesome post touched on suicide, I always thought this was awesome:

I don't really have a lot of positive advice to add to what's already been said, but definitely don't play any more poker until you get your mental/emotional situation completely sorted out. I think PLO is sort of like psychedelics: If your mind isn't right going in, bad things are pretty likely to happen.

As to your thoughts of suicide, just remember that life changes all of the time. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. Do you really think you're not going to have any profoundly positive/enriching experiences over the next 60 or 70 years?

You pretty much stop thinking about all of the bad stretches in life as soon as they're over. The good times will always stay with you though. Don't throw that away.