Is it feasible to fold flopped nuts? - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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Is it feasible to fold flopped nuts?

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08-20-2009 , 11:57 AM

random6869

stranger

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2

To fold a flopped nut run to someone running like the sun?

For example:

I have 4-5-6-7 in my paw.(rainbow for this example)

Flop: 5-8-9. 2 hearts. I bet pot, "majorheater" raises pot. me:???

I've layed down this sort of hand a few times, and I've usually been right.

But in terms of poker theory is this just completely stupid? I mean, you have the stone cold nuts.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or comments.

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08-20-2009 , 12:13 PM

mdb77

adept

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 958

against multiple opponents with a dry straight on a board like that, depending on the action, i think its very feasible to fold the nuts when its obvious you are up against a combination of: a wrap to a better straight, some type of set +FD hand, or even the same straight but with a freeroll

However, heads up, 100 BB deep (you didnt give stack sizes in example) im never folding the nuts

and an argument can be made for calling the raise and jamming a safe turn, but i would prefer just jamming flop

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08-20-2009 , 12:13 PM

mdb77

adept

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 958

and welcome to 2+2

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08-20-2009 , 12:15 PM

Highlimit

journeyman

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 361

reraise

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08-20-2009 , 12:22 PM

MUST.STOP.CALLING

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 204

are you serious? Didn't anyone ever tell you past results can't predict the future? How can you fold the nuts because opponent is on a 'heater' If a guy hit his outs the last 1, 30, or 500000000 times straight it still makes his odds on this hand the same as if he was anyone else. The only way this could possibly be a fold is if you put the guy on 6799 with two hearts or 6710j with two hearts and you can't possibly put a guy on a range that tight. If you are really worried about getting freerolled then you can always call the flop and shove a safe turn like mdb77 says but just folding it has got to be the craziest thing I ever heard.

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08-20-2009 , 12:25 PM

random6869

stranger

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by MUST.STOP.CALLING

So you're 100% sure that "heaters" don't exist.

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08-20-2009 , 12:27 PM

dirtylobster

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 7,902

Heaters/downswings are always in the past.

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08-20-2009 , 12:37 PM

Xr8ed

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,404

making a decision based on probability should not include the variable 'opponent is on a heater' in said decision's calculations.

HU just get it in for <=100bbs.

multiway reraised spots is usually where you will dump this, as your equity takes a nosedive.

also fwiw while I understand your example is most likely fabricated, it's still worth noting you should take 4567R out of your arsenal of playable UTG hands if you are ever planning on pot/folding flopped nuts vs 1 opponent, esp vs 'majorheater' (i am assuming the 'major' part infers winning lots of pots, thus a high vp$p opponent).

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08-20-2009 , 02:13 PM

nikusch

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 568

that depends highly if not only on your stack/pot ratio. If very deep, you can fold, if not then ship it

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08-20-2009 , 02:52 PM

#10

MUST.STOP.CALLING

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 204

I don't think I can ever fold this no matter how deep the stacks are even multiway unless there is bet-2bet-3bet-4bet etc in such a fashion that it is impossible to call and wait for safe turn.

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08-20-2009 , 03:04 PM

#11

Maffff

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,065

Shipping naked straights on the flop is a massive leak in my opinion. Not to say never to do it - but to always do it is -EV without a doubt.

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08-20-2009 , 03:25 PM

#12

Adaptation

adept

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 707

In multi way pot if the stacks are deep and you have a weak straight on a 2 flush with no redraw and no one will fold to a raise yes, because you might be getting freerolled to a better hand than yours. In case of a set on a dangerous board, you should pretty much never fold - just wait for the turn so that your equity becomes positive. Your the one drawing, to a safe turn card.

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08-20-2009 , 03:33 PM

#13

Hattifnatt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,414

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maffff

Shipping naked straights on the flop is a massive leak in my opinion. Not to say never to do it - but to always do it is -EV without a doubt.

yep

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