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Donking AKKx vs fish Donking AKKx vs fish

06-15-2010 , 08:23 PM
I have mixed emotions on the way I played this hand. River protection/call is super thin/bad, but I'm more interested in whether this is the optimal way to play the hand overall. Villain is 50/28/10, c-bets 61%. General read is that he's a spewtard, only 200 hands though. Do you think I should avoid these spots and make grinding-life a bit easier? All comments appreciated.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $527.40
Hero (UTG): $148.05
MP: $28.60
CO: $245.45
BTN: $135.20
SB: $156.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with K 9 K A
Hero calls $1, 1 fold, CO raises to $4.50, 3 folds, Hero calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.50) 5 J 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $10.50, CO calls $10.50

Turn: ($31.50) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $31.50, CO calls $31.50

River: ($94.50) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $33, CO raises to $193.50, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $68.55 all in

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $297.60
Hero mucks Kd 9s Ks Ac
CO shows 9h 7d 9d Tc (a straight, Queen high)
CO wins $294.60
(Rake: $3.00)
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote
06-15-2010 , 11:40 PM
i don't like this very much. if you're trying to get him off high cards then i'd rather c/r the flop then donk out. the turn card is very bad for us because anything we are representing on the flop doesn't improve, and villain very well may have improved here. i will probably check/fold the turn. on the river it just looks like a blocking bet and your bet sizing is pretty bad (inconsistent with any hand you can be representing). i'd either just shove or check/fold
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote
06-16-2010 , 01:39 AM
If you are going to take this aggressive of a line I don't see why you don't c/r flop.

Once turn comes, I think i'd surrendor this hand. If villain calls your flop bet then odds are turn improve's villains hand. Since you have the A club I wouldn't really be putting villain on a club draw.

That turn card is just too dangerious for your hand and given how deep you are, this line is just really spewy.

The only thing worse than the turn card is the river card. That 8 makes the straight both ways from 65 to QJ.

Basically, the river hits pretty much every single draw on the board that can beat you except for the flush draw. Definitely c/f river. Especially after villain calls you down on flop and turn. Calling the river raise is super spewy. THe only thing you beat is a busted flush draw.

Sorry, from start to finish this hand is a train wreck.

In general IMO, there is no sense in inflating a pot in Omaha when you are this deep and have no real draws on a wet board that pretty much misses you.
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote
06-16-2010 , 01:49 AM
i think i would have c/c flp and turn rather than pot both streets, and riv is a fold after being raised imo. being patient to better hands/spots are key imo against fish overall
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote
06-16-2010 , 02:00 AM
This may be on the nitty side, but I will never push 100 BB in Omaha unless I have the nuts or second nuts or am drawing to 20+ outs to win...

Looking at the above hand and how deep you are, I think you've got some serious leaks when it comes to overpairs and aggression.

I get the sense that you are the type of player that once you start betting, you just can't stop no matter what.

This type of play is why I call preflop 3bets with semi-wrap bullshtt. If I hit, no matter what, you won't slow down and I end up stacking you. If i'm sitting 100BB+ deep I get to stack for the bargain basement price of 3BB - 6BB.
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote
06-16-2010 , 03:31 AM
pf limp call? why?

Flop donk is good.

I dont like your turn betsize.

river cc or cf, probably cc depense on betsize.
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote
06-16-2010 , 06:35 AM
raise pre. flop is ok, though c/c would be my standard there. as played obv barrel turn, i prefer a bit smaller bet though. vs a spewtard c/c river would be standard, but your gaybet/call line is kinda sexy.
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote
06-16-2010 , 06:50 AM
Open pre, if you are limping because you are afraid you will get 3-bet, just 4-bet.
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote
06-16-2010 , 10:10 AM
ty for all comments. Pre is def debatable, I often limp/3bet this, but post-flop is really what I'm interested in.

I don't like c/c too much, because it often leads to guessing on whether to bluff catch river/call second barrel on turn.

c/r flop is somewhat appealing, it certainly looks really strong and forces villain to fold many draws. I chose to donk because I felt it would make turn easier to play. I don't hate my second barrel, since the Q is sort of a brick, but I admit it's not the optimal turn really.

River is super spewy from me, don't have any defence for it really, just excuses.

Here's a quick follow-up question:

On the flop, do you prefer

1. c/c
2. c/r
3. donk
4. c/f
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote
06-16-2010 , 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris
This may be on the nitty side, but I will never push 100 BB in Omaha unless I have the nuts or second nuts or am drawing to 20+ outs to win...

Looking at the above hand and how deep you are, I think you've got some serious leaks when it comes to overpairs and aggression.

I get the sense that you are the type of player that once you start betting, you just can't stop no matter what.

This type of play is why I call preflop 3bets with semi-wrap bullshtt. If I hit, no matter what, you won't slow down and I end up stacking you. If i'm sitting 100BB+ deep I get to stack for the bargain basement price of 3BB - 6BB.
I never used to donk in hu pots so I'm kind of experimenting here. I'm well aware that I'm overplaying my naked KK big time. How I play on 3bet pots is a whole other ball game...

Everyone gets lured into 3-barrelling one pair sometimes, lol. But please don't make such a spewy read on me based on one hand... unless you wanna play me sometimes, of course
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote
06-16-2010 , 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivev
raise pre. flop is ok, though c/c would be my standard there. as played obv barrel turn, i prefer a bit smaller bet though. vs a spewtard c/c river would be standard, but your gaybet/call line is kinda sexy.
I aim to please!
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote
06-16-2010 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolercoasterrr
i don't like this very much. if you're trying to get him off high cards then i'd rather c/r the flop then donk out. the turn card is very bad for us because anything we are representing on the flop doesn't improve, and villain very well may have improved here. i will probably check/fold the turn. on the river it just looks like a blocking bet and your bet sizing is pretty bad (inconsistent with any hand you can be representing). i'd either just shove or check/fold
+1 for the river shove or chk/fold. River play is awful imo. Flop I think chk/raise would be better. barrel the turn and shut down beyond that.
Donking AKKx vs fish Quote

      
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