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2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot 2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot

02-13-2012 , 01:33 PM
Villain is a tight, small winner. Plays 22/17/7 over 5k hands. He used to grind MSNL.

Thoughts on turn play?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $4(BB) Replayer
SB ($400)
BB ($730)
UTG ($1,022)
UTG+1 ($400)
CO ($729)
Hero ($936)

Dealt to Hero 8 T 7 J

fold, fold, CO raises to $12, Hero raises to $40, fold, fold, CO calls $28

FLOP ($86) 5 J 7

CO checks, Hero bets $64, CO calls $64

TURN ($214) 5 J 7 T

CO checks, Hero?
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-13-2012 , 04:24 PM
check back, if you bet he's not staying involved w/ any hands that you have beat.
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-13-2012 , 05:38 PM
I think the fact that you are close to 200bb deep makes turn easier to b/f. He should only x/shove 89 and big combodraws like AKQdd which he hasn't too many in his range after x/calling flop.
100bb deep would be tougher imo. But I'd still b/c turn since he doesn't get to the turn with too many 98** b/c most gutter would have sth to go with it and x/shove.
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-13-2012 , 06:14 PM
i'm betting
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-13-2012 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy
i'm betting
what about sizing? are you b/f? b/c?
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-13-2012 , 08:47 PM
bet folding $160-$170
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-13-2012 , 08:59 PM
You seem to be quite sure of yourself there, Roy. Why don't you elaborate a bit about your reasons?
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-13-2012 , 11:14 PM
Does anyone else dislike the 3bet with the rainbow hand 180bb deep? Fwiw I would check behind turn
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-13-2012 , 11:31 PM
Bet/fold sounds good.
150-180 should be optimal
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-13-2012 , 11:38 PM
I don't think b/f is good, have to give you a range later on. But I think even this deep most of the people are just c/potting w their wraps.
I can't see them c/f KJQ or something like that.
89 isn't a big part of our range, I think it's better to b/c or cb
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-14-2012 , 09:34 AM
I don't ever post, but its Valentine's so here is a present. I am in the middle of a meeting so.am not going into detail but going to give points to consider:
This is a clear bet.
First, he doesn't have too many 89 combos, he could have like j89, but he can also have 78T or tj9, so 89 isn't necessarily high in his range.
First ask yourself, will worse call me. On this board worse can certainly call. What worse hands call?
Are there any hands he c.r. bluffs/semibluffs? That can make our decision trickier.
How is.this hand in respect to my range? Is it near the top, I think so, so if I am checking this what am I ever betting? 89, and big wrap+fd? Too narrow a range.
WHat will opponent consider my betting range to be? If he perceives our range as very narrow like 89 and draws, he should make mistakes thinking 89 isnt necessarily high in our 3b range.
gtg, sorry I can't take the time to go into details, consider some of these points.
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-14-2012 , 10:42 AM
You guys think he is c/c worse and only shoving 89?
I think we're even ahead of his getting it in range. If we bet(for example 160) we need 30% to call a shove and it should be a easy call if you aren't a big nit.
With my image I'm happily b/c
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-14-2012 , 11:00 AM
I think he's more likely to have J+backdoors and such instead of an 89 combo.

b/c>cb>>>>>>>>b/f
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-14-2012 , 11:04 AM
Definitely don't like the three bet, suites make all the difference in being able to stack off post. Still a strong hand but you are going to have to be more selective on the flop, ergo no need to inflate the pot pre. Villian is begging to be barreled so unless you think he is especially tricky, and esp. w/ your blocker, I cannot see any argument against barreling away. Not so big though. We are on the turn, so you don't need to size towards pot. The downside of betting is getting check raised off our outs, but they are probably only 12% anyway so it's not the end of the world. Give up $20 equity the rare time you are c/r in exchange for protecting your equity edge most of the time. Betting turn also enables you to check back (or fold if he leads) nasty rivers.
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-15-2012 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papicoolo
You guys think he is c/c worse and only shoving 89?
I think we're even ahead of his getting it in range. If we bet(for example 160) we need 30% to call a shove and it should be a easy call if you aren't a big nit.
With my image I'm happily b/c
i didin't realise we only needed 30% to call after we bet. I still think it's kinda close, esp. vs a tight reg. It very much depends on his turn c/r tendencies but IME there are a tonne of tight regs who are very nitty when it comes to c/ring the turn 200bbs deep and will only do it with the nizzles or damn close to it.
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote
02-15-2012 , 05:35 PM
this seems like a fairly clear checkback to me unless he frequently leads this turn with a polarized range.

we have plenty of bet/calling combos in our range, as well as plenty of combos with less equity and more blockers which can bet/fold for balance. (not that we need too much on this texture, but w/e)
2/4 Turn spot in 3bet pot Quote

      
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