2/4 Turn play 145 bb - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Omaha

2/4 Turn play 145 bb

Post Reply Subscribe

...

11-26-2008 , 01:41 PM

HeddaGambler

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 340

Villain is a good, aggressive regular. When he bets in front like this after I raised I put him either on a draw or a top pair which he wants to play aggressive. The turn card is excellent for me and I have a ton of outs in addition to the fact that I might by ahead here. So what`s my play?

$2/$4 Pot Limit Omaha Hi
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero (CO) ($579.50)
BTN ($394.00)
SB ($1620.66)
BB ($509.93)

Pre-flop: ($6, 4 players) Hero is CO A

Hero raises to $14, ultimatefox calls $14, thenizz calls $12, 1 fold

Flop: 9

($46, 3 players)
thenizz bets $46, Hero calls $46, ultimatefox folds

Turn: K

($138, 2 players)
thenizz bets $138, $138 to Hero ($519.5)?

Quote

11-26-2008 , 01:55 PM

popoko42

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,057

shove
1. if he has a diamond draw its better than yours
2. he needs a big hand to call
3. you have a lot of equity even if has a monster and calls

Quote

11-26-2008 , 03:11 PM

Nicotine Dreams

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,195

After potting both the flop And the turn, he's gonna call Any shove with your stack.
No fold equity unless villain is a donkey and/or super user.

If villain is a Good, Aggressive, *Regular*, you should have some kind of idea of the playing style when it goes 1) Lead into PFR pot with F/D on it 2) Pot the turn with Bottom two on the turn 3) Leads into 2 players in a raised pot with Air 4) Bet/Call 100bbs+ on the turn with naked Open Ender when their are 2 F/Ds... etc.

Quote

11-26-2008 , 03:34 PM

HeddaGambler

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 340

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicotine Dreams

I did put him on a pair and a flush draw playing it the way he did. You really think he`ll always call my shove, which is almost a psb, with that?

Quote

11-26-2008 , 04:19 PM

popoko42

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,057

if you shoved, the hand that makes most sense for you is KKxx

Quote

11-27-2008 , 09:05 PM

DJ Sensei

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 8,696

You don't have any FE here unless he's bluffing with air (which is very unlikely). The only reason to shove is if you think you're ahead of his range. I do not think that is the case. I would just call and put the rest in on the river when you get there.

Quote

11-27-2008 , 09:29 PM

HeddaGambler

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 340

No FE, ey? What if he`s got 95 or A9xx diamonds, that are two likely holdings here? Can he call a PSB with 2 pair that probably got counterfitted here, or a flushdraw with a nine? I really do not like a call here. What do I do if a diamond hits or I get two pair? Shoving might very well be the "lazy" play here, but I do think it is the best one.

Anyways, I did shove and Villain folded after a while.

Quote

11-27-2008 , 11:26 PM

jwc529

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,112

fold equity is pretty slim considering there is 2 flush draws out

Quote

11-28-2008 , 01:28 AM

SSES

adept

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 786

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Sensei

Dont we worry that our hand becomes relatively face up and thus he wont pay us off if we use this strat?

legit question btw i dont know

Quote

11-28-2008 , 09:33 AM

#10

Hattifnatt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,414

I would definitely go all-in.

Quote

11-28-2008 , 09:44 AM

#11

blopp

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,756

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Sensei

You don't have any FE here unless he's bluffing with air

I think this is wrong. By a mile. Any made hand worse then top2 is hard for villian to felt without some redraw. Combined with our equity this is an easy push. There is alot bether made hands a good villian might and should betfold.

There is also some draw type hands we would like villian to betcall (esp wraps/wrap+pair/wrap + flushdraw).

Quote

11-28-2008 , 10:31 AM

#12

jwc529

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,112

why is calling so bad? if he has a set is he really going to give us credit for either flush draw and just c/f?
if you hit an ace or 9 he might triple barrel his missed draws too

Quote

11-28-2008 , 10:32 AM

#13

chinaski101

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,973

From what I remember of thenizz, he wont fire here without a hand hes calling a shove with.
I still don't think shoving can be too bad. Your hand still plays well vs his calling a shove range.

Quote

11-28-2008 , 10:35 AM

#14

HeddaGambler

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 340

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinaski101

From what I remember of thenizz, he wont fire here without a hand hes calling a shove with.
I still don't think shoving can be too bad. Your hand still plays well vs his calling a shove range.

When converting Microgaming hands at weaktight.com, the player`s names unfortunately do not seem to be hidden. I apologize for that as it was never my intention to name my opponents here.

Against the rather aggressive regulars I`ve adpoted a rather passive line that works very well for me. They seem to think that they can push me off every hand by double barrelling and I get a lot of value out of the turn pushes. I had not done this against this particular opponent before though, and he folded what I reckon was top two on the flop.

Quote

11-28-2008 , 10:40 AM

#15

HeddaGambler

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 340

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwc529

why is calling so bad? if he has a set is he really going to give us credit for either flush draw and just c/f?
if you hit an ace or 9 he might triple barrel his missed draws too

If he has a set, the money is going in anyway and I am not that big of a dog. If he had top two on the flop, I have fold equity and tons of outs if he calls. If he has a pair and a diamond draw, I still have fold equity and a diamond on the river would most likely be really bad for me. The problem with calling is that I might get a really tought decision on the river instead of getting it in with a very good draw and fold equity. Picking up 50 bb uncontested with an unmade hand on the turn can never be bad imo.

Quote

11-28-2008 , 10:57 AM

#16

jwc529

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,112

would he bet the turn with a hand like 54 though?
if so then shove I guess

if he does have set though, its kings w/ diamonds since he's defending in sb which should be reasonably tighter and then he bets out on flop to see where he's at , but maybe not a hand he wants to c/r get it in this deep

Quote

11-28-2008 , 01:45 PM

#17

ecgruen

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 129

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Sensei

^ this

Quote

11-28-2008 , 07:37 PM

#18

DJ Sensei

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 8,696

Quote:

Originally Posted by blopp

Quote:

There is also some draw type hands we would like villian to betcall (esp wraps/wrap+pair/wrap + flushdraw).

I'd much rather that he betfold those hands than betcall, though of course he won't unless he's an idiot.

Quote

11-28-2008 , 07:55 PM

#19

blopp

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,756

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Sensei

Betfolding a hand like 54xx is one thing. Potting and then folding getting such a good price is another. I think if he intends to betfold he's much more likely to bet smaller than pot (unless he's one of those monkeys who doesn't have a bet size other than pot). I think he probably had a total bluff here if he potted and then folded.

PPL arent random 2 barrel bluffing oop intp 3ppl on drawy boards much in plo ever in the games Ive played. And there are plently players that only mash pot everytime

I'd much rather that he betfold those hands than betcall, though of course he won't unless he's an idiot.

My point was more that we was in very good shape vs alot of his betcall range on this board texture and he will fold alot two pairs hand that see an ugly turn on a push. Those hands booth fit his flop/turnline. I think a naked two barrel here is happening less then 2%.

Quote

11-29-2008 , 12:22 PM

#20

Quasar30

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,866

Quote:

Originally Posted by blopp

My point was more that we was in very good shape vs alot of his betcall range on this board texture and he will fold alot two pairs hand that see an ugly turn on a push. Those hands booth fit his flop/turnline. I think a naked two barrel here is happening less then 2%.

I think he folds less than 5% here. The FE is almost negligible.
And i dont get the bold part of your post at all.
Your not often in awful shape tho.

Quote

11-29-2008 , 01:26 PM

#21

blopp

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,756

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quasar30

I think he folds less than 5% here. The FE is almost negligible.
And i dont get the bold part of your post at all.
Your not often in awful shape tho.

Just tried to make my post readable in a quote. When I think Ive FE there a much more passive player should have a ton. But what do I know.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...