10plo 4bets or not? - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Omaha

10plo 4bets or not?

Post Reply Subscribe

...

01-26-2012 , 05:30 PM

ddp1985

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 282

Both hands these players are just complete whales and were just 3 betting all the time.

Hand 1

Have this player running with stats at 79/53/40 over 20 hands,

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11724842

UTG: $6.33 (63.3 bb)
MP: $18.33 (183.3 bb)
Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $16.27 (162.7 bb)
SB: $4.29 (42.9 bb)
BB: $33.19 (331.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.35, BTN raises to $0.90, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.85, BTN calls $1.95

Flop: ($5.85) A

(2 players)
Hero bets $3, BTN raises to $8.30, Hero calls $4.15 and is all-in

Turn: ($20.15) 9

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($20.15) 6

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Should i be 4 betting this? It has to be well above his 3 bet range. Also what to do on the flop? Cant exactly bet fold as ive got outs to sets and gutshot plus a backdoor flushdraw and also can i really check fold here?

Hand 2

This player was insane running at stats at 92/84/75 over 25 hands

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11724832

BTN: $10.48 (104.8 bb)
SB: $17.78 (177.8 bb)
BB: $25.84 (258.4 bb)
UTG: $4.82 (48.2 bb)
Hero (MP): $10 (100 bb)
CO: $5.45 (54.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K

UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.45, 2 folds, SB raises to $1.55, BB calls $1.45, UTG folds, Hero raises to $6.30, SB calls $4.75, BB calls $4.75

Flop: ($19) 2

(3 players)
SB bets $11.48 and is all-in, BB raises to $19.54 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.70 and is all-in

Turn: ($45.66) 4

(3 players, 3 are all-in)
River: ($45.66) 5

(3 players, 3 are all-in)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Is this the right play with a suited kk? wWouldn't normaly 4 bet this with such weak cards with it but this guy was 3 betting every hand and it has to be well infront of his range. What do you guys think?

Last edited by ddp1985; 01-26-2012 at 05:45 PM.

Quote

01-26-2012 , 07:00 PM

yrmom

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,921

4betting in hand 1 is ******ed and useless. Call, bink a set, make money

4betting hand 2 can be considered depending on the BB coldcalling. Calling is always a good option

Quote

01-26-2012 , 07:14 PM

ddp1985

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 282

I guess i need to learn some discipline with these types of players and wait for better spots as at times they make me start to spew abit as i look at the amount they are 3 betting and its at such a stupid amount.

Quote

01-26-2012 , 07:20 PM

realsheesha

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,296

A common danger with playing with "unconventional" players is getting drawn into it and mimicking their game, instead of exploiting it.

Quote

01-26-2012 , 08:03 PM

ddp1985

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 282

Quote:

Originally Posted by realsheesha

A common danger with playing with "unconventional" players is getting drawn into it and mimicking their game, instead of exploiting it.

Yeah thats definatley true, i should start by waiting for the right spots where i am getting it in with them crushed or quite far behind instead getting into silly pre flop wars with them as thats what they want me to do. Only been playing plo about a month but i feel im getting there. Still a bit new to me coming across these insane types of players

Quote

01-26-2012 , 08:11 PM

SlimyF

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,706

Well put your hands to PPT and see how they work vs. 40 and 75 % 3bet ranges.

Quote

01-26-2012 , 08:27 PM

keanosdog

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 865

Quote:

Originally Posted by yrmom

4betting in hand 1 is ******ed and useless.

why?

can we not 4 bet shove most non AK flops(i.e most flops) just like aces against this guy?

Ok, this flop is horrible, but on so many flops we have to be good, no?

Quote

01-26-2012 , 08:27 PM

ddp1985

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 282

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlimyF

Well put your hands to PPT and see how they work vs. 40 and 75 % 3bet ranges.

Ill try that. Would you be 4 betting these hands in these situations?

Quote

01-26-2012 , 08:43 PM

ddp1985

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 282

Quote:

Originally Posted by keanosdog

why?

can we not 4 bet shove most non AK flops(i.e most flops) just like aces against this guy?

Ok, this flop is horrible, but on so many flops we have to be good, no?

This is what i thought but as im new to plo wasnt sure on whether i should of 4 bet here.

Quote

01-26-2012 , 08:50 PM

#10

ddp1985

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 282

Tryed the pro poker tools site but no idea how to work it. Anyway i can pretty much gather that these hands are in fron equity wise against a 40% and 75% percent 3 better. But should i be taking a lower varience route and be just calling. Also with hand 2 should i not be 4 betting if i think the big blind is always calling after the original 3 better calls?

Quote

01-26-2012 , 10:21 PM

#11

DRoseMJD

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 3,595

Quote:

Originally Posted by yrmom

4betting in hand 1 is ******ed and useless. Call, bink a set, make money

4betting hand 2 can be considered depending on the BB coldcalling. Calling is always a good option

lolwut

Quote

01-26-2012 , 10:36 PM

#12

bartolomeus

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,220

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRoseMJD

lolwut

Its plo10. Clocks turn different there...

Quote

01-26-2012 , 10:51 PM

#13

D moose

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 536

Hand 1 just call. Maniacs don't need help stacking themselves when you are playing a 'make a set' hand. Fit or fold that.

On the flop its a gross gross spot. If you're resigning yourself to getting it in just mash pot.

Hand 2 is fine with any KK. You treat your hand pretty much like AA in that spot. Sucks the BB cold called then called the 4bet, but you got what you wanted. Also BB should not have AA here ever or he would've 4bet the maniac himself.

Pre I like the raise if you expect to be 3bet (which in this case is a yes), otherwise don't open bad kings against a more cally maniac early.

Quote

01-26-2012 , 11:19 PM

#14

DRoseMJD

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 3,595

ssplo where QQJJds is a "making a set" hand, look at some equities people

Quote

01-27-2012 , 01:31 AM

#15

ERGOPHOBIA

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,301

Hand 1: Vs a spew tard if you were in position I could see flatting a 3b but only as a tarp. As played if you intend on stacking this board with your hand I would not CB and give villain maximum bluff opportunity.

Hand 2: You are AIPF so you have to call flop, I forgot to mention that 4b PF is mandatory. And no you will never be in great shape on that flop but you are getting a bazzrillion to 1 to call, so call.

Quote

01-27-2012 , 02:13 AM

#16

SlimyF

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,706

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddp1985

Would you be 4 betting these hands in these situations?

Yes. All day long.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Qd Jh Jd Qh	61.26%	365,070	4,960
40%	38.74%	229,970	4,960

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Kc Kd 6s 2d	58.85%	351,516	3,163
75%	41.15%	245,321	3,163

Btw here you can see how equities work with one crappy big (bigger) pair and two double-suited and connected pairs vs. some ranges

Last edited by SlimyF; 01-27-2012 at 02:23 AM. Reason: also lolwutting

Quote

01-27-2012 , 02:41 AM

#17

Jub.

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,902

Hand 1 I call pre flop, we can get the money in so far ahead on lotsa flop cause we flop so well. Hand 2 I like the 4bet, it's thin tho but can't be bad

Quote

01-27-2012 , 02:47 AM

#18

StorminNorman

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by yrmom

4betting in hand 1 is ******ed and useless. Call, bink a set, make money

Hand 1 you flop most of the time very well. Give him a chance to get it in bad.

Hand 2 4bet looks fine.

Quote

01-27-2012 , 04:13 AM

#19

keanosdog

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 865

Quote:

Originally Posted by StorminNorman

Hand 1 you flop most of the time very well. Give him a chance to get it in bad.

Hand 2 4bet looks fine.

So why not 4 bet and reduce SPR?

IF we wanting to get it in against this drooler why not take the lead and , treat this hand like aces, 4 bet and shove most flops?

am i missing something here?

Quote

01-27-2012 , 04:59 AM

#20

ddp1985

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 282

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRoseMJD

ssplo where QQJJds is a "making a set" hand, look at some equities people

This is what i thought, to me this is a strong hand against a maniac 3 better and i wasn't treating this as making a set against this villain. I pretty much got the worst flop i could of got in this situation but still had 30% equity against him. Maybe i should of just check folded flop but i dont no if thats right or wrong considering he could have any junk in his hand.

Quote

01-27-2012 , 05:03 AM

#21

ddp1985

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 282

So in the given situation in hand 2 is everyone 4 betting this hand? Not sure whether i should of have as looking at it i had a feeling the big blind was going to come along as he was playing loose aswell.

Quote

01-27-2012 , 11:10 AM

#22

yrmom

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,921

calling vs 4betting hand 1 is a simple case of +EV vs way way more +EV. Yes you're making money 4betting (never said you didnt) but you're lowering your edge on the guy significantly by doing so. Calling and c/r'ing a bunch of flops is a much better option, he still has a bunch of crap once the flop comes.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...