BTN is very loose and i expect him to open close to 100% on the button. SB is pretty loose and aggro himself and will repot BTN with a wide range. What do you think of my 4bet here? I have played enough hands w/ SB for him to know that my range is wider than AAxx here, I have no clue how BTN sees my 4bet.

If I dont 4bet, what do I do here? It kinda sucks to be wedged in between here so I think call is the worst option. If we decide to fold here, how big does our dangler have to be for us to continue?

$2,000 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): $2030.00
UTG: $5097.75
CO: $6579.50
BTN: $1970.00
SB: $1819.00

Pre Flop: ($30.00) Hero is BB with K 3 A J
2 folds, BTN raises to $70, SB raises to $230, Hero raises to $760

i guess i should add that BTN never folds to a single 3bet and that SB knows this

just make it 500


are you 4betting as a steal here, to get a fold, to call a shove by button/sb or because you expect 1 or both to call.

as long as neither guy has AA,KK,JJAK,AAQK or something we are good.

I expect the smallblind to hand more rundowns and stuff or double pairs then aa/kk/qq something but im not really familiar with either player.

I agree with you that calling is probably the worst action in this spot. If the button is opening 100% and you know the sb is adjusting and reraising more then it just comes down to how wide he's reraising and how much of that range he's folding and your avg. equity when you all get allin, but off the top of my head I'd think in a typical situation like this it's profitable. The better the dangler is the more and more likely you are to 4bet it of course, but I think even with a 2 here it could be profitable given both of their ranges being wide enough.

Given your reads I don't think this a thin 4bet at all.

what is your plan if its re shipped? fold? I don't think I would want to do that.

yeah, i sorta agree.. i guess i just thought the situation was kinda tight. maybe im just running a little bit bad.

i guess it depends on who ships...BTN might stick it in a bit lighter in hopes of shutting out SB so i guess its close but im pretty sure im calling both

i like a call.

I fold and dont think its even close.
If you do 4bet, obviously you're commited.

I would probably call

I just fold... this is pretty much a math problem and this hand is just not strong enough to 4bet imo. Even against a top 95% range from button, this hand is only 54:46 and you're surely doing worse against SB. I can't envision great things happening if you 4bet here.

Everyone folds?

Ummmm. Why would you even consider folding to a shove given you would be getting greater than 2.5 to 1 and can even call profitability versus aces.

But hey your the expert.

I have a simple "non-rhetorical"question. really would lve to hear your thoughts.

Why? Whats your objective?
lets say they never ever adjust, How often would you like to do this?

And how often would you do this against their specific adjustments.

4betting and folding this hand is a mistake. As Jeff stated, this is just a math problem and the op is the only one that can know the answer since nobody else has the #s to figure this out. In a typical situation that he described, I would expect it to be profitable but again it all comes down to how wide they are both opening, the % of that range they fold, and the avg. equity we have when we get allin. These questions only the op can answer.

UpHigh,

Not sure if that is just addressed to the OP, but the objective would be to utilize fold equity and the width of their ranges to capitalize on the money in the middle knowing that we also have some equity if we get allin. If they never adjusted and this was in fact a situation where 4betting this hand was profitable, I'd keep doing it. Given that almost every player will adjust at some point and assuming this was in fact a profitable 4bet, I'd do it as much as I thought I could get away with without triggering them to adjust.

fold > raise > call imo

I think you can fold preflop here.
That one of the guys has a better hand then u do is not that rare.
Just rember that also lag's can have a hand. A call pretty bad because u loose control, both players are agressive and you will never get a cheap card for a draw. So all in all I would fold here or make a lighter reraise.

Yea once 4-bet its a no brainer all-in if repopped.

Gordo said fold>>raise, but i feel with this dynamic its a goodish 4-bet spot now and a then. Most important thing is that sb 3-bets wide so you have decent fold eq pf and on uncordinated/low flops. For this to work you do need to have an image that doesnt scream "im very lag/tilted and will 4-bet wide". But if its just "i know you 3-bet wide and will 4-bet a couple of hands other than AA and premium rundowns" you should be doing good.

I think calling sucks.

if hes light, he wants sb in....

I'll make my question very specific. I figured vague was ok since this is a medium stakes situation.

Atleast one of three conditions has to be true.

1) 4-betting this hand in this spot is the most profitable play.

2) The most profitable mixed strategy with this hand includes 4-betting it occasionally.

3) the most profitable 4-betting range includes this hand.

I understand that "most" is hard to quantify, and very situational, but still I'm hoping to hear some thoughts on the "why" aspect of this 4-bet.

I have a question about this. Would the 3 be a better dangler than say a 7 because it gives us some wheel draw value, or would the 7 be a better dangler because the pair is worth more?

neither have much value. 3 might have slightly more. A good dangler here is 9 for akj9

this

Change the 3 to a T or Q and I am def. 4betting here. Or make our hand ds, and I 4bet as well.

great OP, and agree with gordo..., this is too thin imo... if you dont have FE i dont like it at all

fwiw having a 9,T,Q instead of a 3 doesnt really change anything about this spot.. its about what hands you are expecting to get it in with with/have to play OOP pots against with commited stacks..