It's profit margins are higher? Production isn't a factor (security services)?

Because it's extra income that we piss away gambling?


I agree with the bold text above. I never said that the non-tipped servers wouldn't provide good service. I said they have less monetary incentive to provide good service. We'll get BETTER service out of the tipped employees.

So, why get rid of the tipped model?

Bet,

The number one reason to get rid of the tipped model is so restaurants can afford to pay non-server/BOH staff more.

Jim,

Exactly. Which is why many of the best servers in the world work at non-tipped places.

Sorry if I'm being confusing. I'm not trying say anything about how things should be.

I'm saying:

• All things being equal, the tipped model will be more profitable/sustainable than the non-tipped model.
• The tipped staff will have more incentive for higher sales/service
• The non-tipped model will lose more money on slow days and make the same on busy days.

Who are these servers and what/where are these places?

You get better service from good servers. If tipping made service better, every server at Chili's would provide exactly the same service. You take a good server out of a tipped place and put them in a non-tipped place and they are still a good server.
9 Reasons We Should Abolish Tipping, Once And For All

Do you have any proof of this, or are you just projecting from personal experience?

Bet,

For example...

http://www.thomaskeller.com/tfl
http://www.thomaskeller.com/per-se
http://ateliercrenn.com/
https://website.alinearestaurant.com/

I haven't been to the last one yet, but at the first three the service is spectacular.

An interesting read:

Why we should get rid of tipping

Go play poker and tip your girl $5 a round. Then change rooms and stiff your new girl every round. Do this a couple times and get back to me.

The tipped employee has MORE MONETARY INCENTIVE to provide fast/friendly service (along with colder beers and bigger shots) than the non-tipped employee.

It's going to take me a while to shoot all of those down but El Diablo should be able to eliminate #1 and take a notch out of that writers credibility.

Bet,

Now just imagine if someone were incented to give every customer excellent service...

Per Se, New York City and the French Laundry, Yountville
Gratuity included the $295 price of the nine-course menu, but additional tips aren't forbidden. Thomas Keller uses the same system at his Napa Valley restaurant.

That was my first google... I might look at the others later.

Both.

What is getting lost in the tipped vs. non-tipped discussion is that there can be a middle ground. Instead of having either 15-25% tips or 0% tips there can be a model where there are tips but only constitute a smaller percentage of a server's wage. Let's say 5% on average.

Bet,

What is your point? While it's not FORBIDDEN if you insist on leaving an additional tip at fl and per se, gratuity/service is included at these places and there's no need to tip, and they make that very clear to diners. It's printed right on the menu.

The servers make ballpark $100k salaries.

Feel free to share your proof then.

You're assuming both are working in a tipped environment. If one is working for tips and the other is making a fixed rate, that makes for a better comparison. Prove that one gives better service than the other.

Edit: In your first example, the server is going to pay better attention to the customer tipping her well at the expense of other customers. So while one customer is getting great service, her overall performance may be less than someone who gets a regular hourly wage.
I eagerly await your reply to each point. Please provide proof for each rebuttal, not just anecdotal evidence.

They're tipped employees.

Beyond accepting and paying taxes on the the tips they receive they also receive a gratuities.

Those establishments fit into the tipped restaurant model.

A "non-tipped" restaurant model:

+ Employees are forbidden to accept tips (policy).
+ No Service Charges are added to the guests bill.
+ No Gratuities are added to the guests bill.
+ It is stated on the menu that no employee accepts tips of any kind.
+ No employee earns any percentage of income through tips (DOL definition)
+ The servers are paid a flat hourly wage or salary.

The tipped vs non-tipped debate I have been engaged in centers around one restaurant with the standard tipped model vs the same restaurant that does away with all tips, increases menu prices, while using the gains from increased prices to pay staff more. All they get is their paycheck.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_5991796.html

Pretty sure that tip credit wages tear apart #1 here.

Maybe read each section, not just the headline.

Bet, I'm not quite ready to concede these points. The first point is the general question, which is what we're all trying to figure out. So onto the second point, on it's surface yeah, seems sort of logical, but I don't think you're giving enough credit to the model of an employee getting paid hourly what they would be making with their base and tips. You seem to indicate that they'd suddenly not give a **** about their job, which is the equivalent of saying all us hourly workers should be slacking off and sucking cuz we don't work for tips or incentives. I'm not saying you're dead wrong, but I'm certainly saying that it's just not clear. I think those employees might absolutely do a fine job. No way is it obvious they wouldn't.

Third point I just can't agree with. We have to assume that any restaurant would quickly get a sense of what their busy days are and which days are slower, and they'd staff appropriately. There might be some incremental difference, but that's all it would be, incremental.

And finally, it's not out of the question at all that the public would find themselves loving no-tip establishments. My point of reference is the Uber model. I absolutely love the idea of not tipping, and having that cost just rolled into the cost of the ride, which I think is roughly the same as taking a cab. People might love it and then it becomes a huge win all around, for the restaurant, the servers, and the public. That is not a crazy idea.

Does this mean they actually do add an 18% gratuity, or just that they might decide to on a whim?

I know when I was a server it was up to me when I served parties of 8 or more whether to auto-grat them.

Some servers would make a show of it trying to imply/incentivize a larger tip.

The risk you ran was the party assuming the tip was already automatic because the host/hostess would tell the party when sitting them, sometimes even if you asked them not to.

First impressions/appearances weren't always telling too, vis a vis size of tip.

When I read on this they cited Keller's restaurant(s) as a non-tipping establishment that instituted an automatic service charge, but also said they still accepted tips.

http://www.grubstreet.com/2013/06/re...cept-tips.html

I dunno tho, just passing along something I read. I have no firsthand experience.

Bet,

The French Laundry increased their base menu price from like $240+whatever you tip to $295 with service included, and used the included service charge to give servers a nice fixed salary and increase wages of other staff.

Look at the bottom of these menus. It's harder to be more clear than this:

http://cdn.thomaskeller.com/sites/de...er_tasting.pdf
http://cdn.thomaskeller.com/sites/de....20_dinner.pdf