5ive,

The just kidding defense is an old time favorite around here! It's used by the greatest logicians in OOT.

That rule is just insane. What if I keep a leopard in my backyard, is it okay for me to have small children visit my place? Hey, the leopard hasn't bitten anyone yet, must be safe, let's have unattended children come over to play!

Why shouldn't that count? If we just call them "guard dogs" they're no longer a danger to the public? Sorry your kid got shredded, she shouldn't have wandered onto my lawn near my totally safe guard pitbull.

I'm not kidding or trying to defend anything, instead inquiring what on earth he could be referring to.

I said I was artificially bred to be abrasive on the internet, but surprise twist, I wasn't artificially bred to be abrasive on the interne, so...?

Lozl I'm pretty sure I've made loud and clear my stance on heritable genetic traits in dogs before that, and you want to imply I'm ducking and dodging and not standing by my words by calling that lazy joke... A joke? Project less.

Are you ****ing with me?

5ive,

You said in the post above mine it was a joke. So it wasn't?

What's the "it"?

That's the least abrasive I can be.

No, I am not ****ing with you. If we're trying to determine if pitbulls are dangerous or not, it's fair to count situations where trespassing 14-year olds get mauled. To keep it fair we can also count trespassing teenagers who need reconstructive plastic surgery after encountering Labradors and golden retrievers.

The real wonder is why anyone would chose this cuddly, family-friendly breed as a guard dog.

Ok, well... Wow, I guess.

So, if we're trying trying to determine if pitbulls are inherently aggressive, we should include the pitbulls that were specifically trained to be aggressive and attack living creatures that come into its yard? That sounds scientifically rigorous to you?

pretty weird that youre talking about being scientifically rigorous when youve offered 0 in the way of science, and seem to be denying established scientific facts like that personality traits are hugely heritable. if that fact is acknowledged, i dont see how one can hold the position that breeds dont reflect certain personality traits. Just because theyre the same.species we cant breed for.certain traits? Is your position that pits would be just as god as labs at being guide dogs, that labs would be just as good as sheepdogs at herding sheep, and sheepdoga would be just as talented as.pits at ripping off toddlers.faces? So far, youve made some pretty extraordinary claims about heritability of traits, and you know what they say about extraordinary claims right?

If we want to be scientific, we really have no evidence that the animal was trained in any way other than the owners word.

Leaving that aside, my thesis is that pitbulls are dangerous af and we shouldn't let random dip****s own them and keep them in their front yards. I'd love to know what the counter-argument is.

Like, if I place land mines all over my front yard and some trespassing teenage girl gets her leg blown off, everyone would think I'm a goddamn psychopath but somehow keeping an attack dog that rips people to shreds is normal, acceptable behavior. It boggles my mind that this is how people in a first world country behave.

If personality traits can't be modified by selective breeding, then all dogs are essentially feral, right?

Get abrasive!

True, I didn't link to dogsbite.org, that paragon of cutting-edge behavioral science.

I'm not denying it, dogs are "friendlier" than, say, hyenas. Dogs might be a bit "friendlier" than dogs but the specifics get kinda fuzzy.

Yes, obviously, barring physical limitations. And it's been demonstrated! I'll spare you links though as I don't want your "youve offered 0 in the way of science" to be totally bankrupt.

0 in the way of science, really? So I imagined making that detailed post about dogsbite.org and the pitfalls of drawing false scientific conclusions?

No, what do they say?

Well you still didn't specify but I guess you mean "that" "it". Yeah, the part about me being selectively bred for online abrasiveness was a joke. The part about some people's dated grasp of genetics being a joke was not a joke.

problemeliminator (et al?),

You're marching lockstep with and going to bat for a person that said they don't know or care if a pitbull is a separate species than other dogs. Let that sink in and ask yourself if you might've made some errors somewhere along the way.

Keep them coming 5ive, you're living up to expectations imo.

Hey Yakmelk,

So, what part of the thread did you think I should read, that I hadn't read? What information did you think I wasn't aware of? Lemme guess, it was the dogsbite.org links, right? Be as detailed as you'd like in your response.

I don't get how the zoological classification of pitbulls is relevant to my thesis. Can you elaborate?

You can classify breeds differently in a species
Pitbull or rottweiler aren't treated the same way as poodle or chihuahua.

Can a pit lover give me a decent argument against neutering as many as possible to deal with the overpopulation of the breed.

I checked in france the breed is not extinct yet and we don't have shelters full of Pitbulls anymore.

That's because it is. Dogs are like children in a class. **** dog means **** teacher. This is true regardless of breed. I've seen toy breed dogs that are very unbalanced. Sadly people think it's cute when pepe growls and barks and snarls. Not so much when spike does. Pitts are wonderful dogs but do need proper training which i'm not qualified to give thus i don't have one but have meet several over the years and all were friendly i do agree that perspective owners should have to under go special training

You should neuter your dog regardless at least in America as pet overpopulation is a huge issue

Was over a friends yesterday with pup and their two dogs. Loser family with admittedly horribly-trained pit just HAAAAAAD to go home and get their little savage spawn of satan to join in on the fun.

Ten seconds after they walk back in the door with their monster...PARTY'S OVER! Savage growling, aggressive posturing, stupid bitch trying to pull her sweet little baby off another dog(thankfully not mine). Insta-leashed my dog and brought it home.

Pit owners really are just the absolute worst literally 100% of the time.

No one should be breeding any kind of dog as long as we have shelters full of dogs that need homes.

The irony is, they probably ran home and got the dog so that you could be "educated" first-hand about how "misunderstood" they are.

That's a great question. Yes on surface streets, no on the open highway. The autobahn works very well, better than any USA#1 highway.

If I were truly principled, I'd probably have to say no on surface streets as well, on the argument that we can have a remedy after the fact. The trouble with that is that many car accidents are factually ambiguous as to fault. I guess I'd be ok with no speed limit but per se liability for drivers over a certain speed, and a data recorder requirement.

This really is a derail.