I work at a mid-size ad agency. The owners are two horrible people. Today, for the second time, they've threatened to dock pay - this time for lateness. Our day begins officially at 9:30, but most of the creative department gets in around 9:45 to 10:00. The reason for this is that these horrible cretins have no issue with keeping you until 7 or 8 PM, even if it's for some stupid **** (usually when we're working on a pitch, and they want to make idiotic last-minute corrections to things).

Anyway, a few months ago they realized that people were submitting time sheets late (in advertising, like law, accounting, etc, you have to meticulously bill your time). They threatened to withhold paychecks of those who didn't submit by the end of the week. I found out this is illegal, but obviously didn't say anything. Now, they're threatening to dock paychecks for lateness.

Is this legal? I figured at worst, to make it official, you'd get a talking-to by HR, and then they can fire you if you continue. But can they really withhold salary for being late? Has anyone had this happen to them?

At my job and past jobs, we were informed that if you submitted a timesheet late, there was a chance your paycheck would be delayed. This is for a huge company and the payroll dept. needs time to process all the time sheets, and any late ones may miss the deadline. I was fine with this. I figure, if you really care about being paid, you can spend the couple of minutes filling out the form and getting it approved.

Now, for docking your pay for lateness -- that seems very shady. I agree that you may be reprimanded if it's a consistent problem, and any yearly raises/bonuses may suffer from it as tardiness is usually incorporated as a performance issue. But to dock your pay seems a stretch.

I don't see how they could possibly get away with this. I would quit anyway, sounds ****ty.

Sounds like a bad place to work.

I don't know if this is legal or not though.

First hit when I Googled "dock pay tardiness."

http://www.toolkit.com/small_busines...x?nid=P05_4125

I don't think they can withhold your paycheck, but they can definately fire you for being late. Have you thought about looking for another job?

This is for only non-exempt employees, it seems.

I made a mistake because that link refers to hourly wage earners. This should be more relevant:

http://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/la...aa082602_3.htm

That was the second hit when I Googled "dock salary tardiness".

** Not a lawyer, not a HR person, just based off a couple of googles this is what I came up with.

You may not legally be an "exempt" employee. Just because you get a 'salary' does not mean you are exempt from OT pay (and the fact the owners are threatening to dock pay may tip their hand to the fact they know that distinction). I would look at the 2nd link and/or contact your state's Dept of Labor to find out for sure.

It looks like if they start to dock salaried pay for the time they show up and the time they leave, the owners run the risk of turning you into a hourly worker, which would allow you to be compensated for OT.

There could be state laws involved so I would contact the State Dept of Labor (or a Labor Lawyer) to be sure, but this is where I found the answer.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19226911/

which leads to...

http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Ti...CFR541.118.htm

The main thing the 2nd link states is what you CAN be docked pay for. It doesn't really state what you can't be docked pay for. But the main thing I see is that it really mentions full days missed not under an hour missed. The only thing that really mentions anything that might fit is below...

"An employee will not be considered to be ``on a salary basis''
if deductions from his predetermined compensation are made for absences
occasioned by the employer or by the operating requirements of the
business. Accordingly, if the employee is ready, willing, and able to
work, deductions may not be made for time when work is not available."

I would click on the 2nd link. And after reading that, I would click on the next link that led to that one (where it says Part 541) and look at creative professionals (it sounds like that is your field) and read that. I am not sure you qualify as an exempt employee.

** AND AGAIN I AM NOT A LAWYER OR HR PERSON, ALL FROM GOOGLE AND INTERPRETATION.

Have been looking endlessly. The nice thing about my job is that it's secure, but yeah, other things suck about it. The problem is I've only been in advertising for 10 months, so my resume still looks pretty green.

You talk about how, like law, you have to meticulously bill your time. Well, plenty of law firms punish for late submission of time.

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2008/02/a...ch_dechert.php

"Attached is an email that all the attorneys at Dechert LLP received today regarding associate bonuses and potential penalties. According to the policy outlined below, an associate's bonus may be reduced by up to 10% due to the late submission of billable time over the past year. I thought this might be of some interest to your readers."


http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/08/f...ard_time_1.php

"Notification of non-compliance will be given to the Office of Attorney Development as well as to the leader of the delinquent timekeeper’s department or practice group. Failure to comply will impact the performance evaluation of a timekeeper and, in repeated cases, will result in a timekeeper no longer being eligible for direct deposit of his or her compensation."

OP-- Jesus, now I know why you want to get out of there. Your upper management sound like a bunch of Nazis. I've never heard of an agency threatening their employees this way, especially with the whole time sheet issue. At my agency, if you are late with your sheets, the finance department typically shoots you an reminder email. If you are constantly tardy, they may go to your management. Except for the end of a quarter or year, it's never a big issue.

A coworker of mine used to work at LLNS in Midtown. If you were constantly late with your time sheets, they would take away your direct deposit option for your paycheck, meaning you had to go to payroll whenever the paychecks came in. Even this seems excessive, but it got the job done.

Fwiw, I likely wouldn't take your agency's threats very seriously. I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure they can't legally do this. The creatives here get in late as well (around 9:30-10) because they don't really have much to do that early in the morning. But if your management says you need to be in, I'd just set my alarm clock 15 minutes early and suck it up. No reason to piss off HR.

otnemen,

I agree that your company sounds shady and I'm glad you're looking for another job, but I would like to ask an honest question. I know dozens of college-educated people in office jobs, and the vast, vast majority works from 8 to 5 or 6pm. So, coming in at 10 and being forced to stay til 7 or 8 does not sound that bad to me. What sorts of hours or schedules are more typical for folks in advertising?

Coming in at 10 and having to stay until 7 sometimes isn't terrible. But my employer is saying, "You need to make sure you're here exactly on time, but I will keep you as late as I need you." That's ****ty. It should be understood by them that everyone in the department is more than willing to stay late at the whim of these two (uncreative, untalented) douches, but they should be more lenient when it comes to coming late. If they threaten to dock pay for lateness, are they also prepared to give us OT for staying two hours past our listed hours of operation? Definitely not.

My bonus was $100 this year (seriously). Lawyers make a **** load of money, and their bonus is commensurate on performance.


This is different than actually withholding salary. And I'm not really an offender when it comes to late time sheets. But it's just insulting to be told that they're not going to pay you.

It completely depends on the agency, the brand team, and/or the client. For instance, if your agency culture is more relaxed, coming in a little later isn't a big deal. But if your client's company starts the work day earlier, or your team gets into the office at an earlier hour than the rest of the agency, you may have longer hours. Other variables, such as a huge meeting coming up, pitches, or absurd deadlines, can change your hours quite a bit. Work seems to come in waves. Sometimes we are really busy, sometimes we aren't.

I get into the office around 9:30 and leave around 6.

otnemem,

obviously its ****ty, but obviously you don't deserve OT. I assume when you got hired for this position, you were well aware that it wasn't the type of job where the whistle blows at 5pm and everyone punches out. With this knowledge, then it should be clear that your agreed upon salary reflects this. regardless, i know i'd still be pissed that they are being hard asses about it

Holy nice find. That site is awesome!

I was a salaried employee for 10 years, never once had my pay docked, nor did anyone with whom I worked. I was in the software industry, though, so we were pretty laid back especially when it came to things like tardiness (programmers regularly come in at 10 or 11 and then work until late at night, it seems standard in the industry), dress codes or guys bringing their dogs to work.

I think for people who have to be creative, being flexible with working hours is good because you never know when people are at their most creative. There's no sense making people show up at 9:00am if they're not going to be productive until 10. That said, if people started to abuse your flexibility then you have to take steps. It's a balancing act.

I'm not in any way asking for OT. It's just irritating that these idiots have no scope whatsoever. From what I've heard, at most agencies it's pretty standard for the creative department to come in a little late, because it's a given that they'll work a lot of late hours. To me, it basically comes down to a lack of appreciation whatsoever. I know that sounds stupid, but it's a small agency, and I interact with one of the two owners on an almost daily basis. We can churn out so much good work for them, week after week, but at the end of the day they'll forget it all because you came in twenty minutes late.

you need to find an ad place where you get to ride around on razr skooters and throw nerf balls around

And lots of horn rimmed glasses and Wayfarers.

Does your team necessarily need you in the office that early in the morning? Or if you got in on time, you'd just be twiddling your thumbs?

I'm just asking because, if your account team needs a copywriter at that time, the excuse of "I always work late" isn't a very good one, especially when the client needs something asap.

Probably what your employer is threating is slightly illegal, but 90% of companies do this and get away with it.

Roughly if you are non-exempt, you can be required to work certain hours, but you must be paid OT.

If are exempt, then you cannot be required to work overtime or exact hours as long as you are doing your job and fullfilling your duties. Requiring you to be in the office during normal business hours is allowed.

Also as someone previously mentioned, just because you are salaried does not mean you exempt, which is one of the things you can sue over. If you are being paid a salary but being treated like a non-exempt worker then you can sue for OT pay.

But employers routinely try to have it both ways - not pay OT and also require hours, which they can't do. There have been some recent cases I'm aware of where the employees have sued & the employer caved, such as at Electronic Arts.

BTW if an employer ever tried this **** on me I think I'd quit on the spot.

No, I don't do much that early. I don't think I've ever had a meeting with/been approached by an AE before noon.