Well I'm 30 and things are still getting better. If you think this sort of age shuts you out from women 18-23 etc then you got lots to learn. Remember how resentful you felt when you're like an early 20s kid and these way older guys were getting "your" girls. There's a reason for that. Guys generally just get more attractive with life experience and growing comfortable with who they are. When that insecure young male **** is gone, it's party time.

This is exactly why I don't date teenagers. No perspective.

You can't be twenty on Sugar Mountain

So ITT "optimum" = ability to get laid? In that case, if it's other dudes you're trying to nail, the optimum age to be is 18. Of the choices listed, 21-24.

I think it's actually the ability to get laid by 21-23 year-old girls that hang out in bars and have no other useful purpose. I mean, that's the mountain top of existence, right?

Its the embodiment of success.

most of the guys on Millionaire Matchmaker seem to think so..

It's true that 36-45 is way better for a male than a female. But let's not forget that being a 18-28 female trumps any male age in life. When you are a 18-28 girl and in shape you get free drinks, free dates, get to cut lines at clubs, can use your sexuality to get ahead at work, get complemented all the time. You are a pseudo celebrity that doesn't have to work for anything and reaps all the benefits of life.

I follow a few hot girls on Instagram and they have thousands of comments from guys just oogling after them. Guys are lucky to get one complement a week.

I guess it's tough to then hit your 30s and have all that stuff completely go away but at it's peak I have to admit I'm insanely jealous of all these girls I'm friends with. I wish I had what they did.

Well you could get a sex-change operation.

This assumes you are not one of the 20%+ who are secular assaulted and you don't care about having dozens of PUA douchebags bothering you constantly when you go out on a night. Also make sure those free drinks aren't spiked. Plus you get paid less for the identical same work and become unemployable when you give off any sign you want to have kids in the future like by getting married.

Phill,

Agreed there are negatives but from a pure dating standpoint if you are a hot girl you never experience the rejection that normal guys do. I know a few hot girls and they simply make it known they want a guy and they always get them. A hot girl isn't going to get turned down by any guy. For guys it's a numbers game if you weren't blessed with unbelievably good looks or a ton of money; for a hot girl it's whatever they want in life whenever they want it.

And it's not just PUA guys they turn down. They shoot down completely normal guys who they think they can do better looks wise than. If every guy in the club wants you you can turn down 99% or 100% of guys and preselect the best looking one. Wheras a normal guy does not have that capability and usually settles for what he can get.

We are going pretty off topic though. This thread is more at what age is your best chance that to have a shot with these girls.

Benefits of life:

Free drinks
Free dates
Cut lines at clubs
Bang the boss

Ya, I think that about covers it.

I think I have a new favorite phrase.

Sounds like a good recipe for someone to become a crazy, ****ty person. No thanks.

Why are we comparing hot girls to normal guys and not hot girls to, you know, hot guys?

I'm 51 with a stable family and marriage, so I don't have any practical interest in the way OP defines optimum, which is banging young drunk hotties by picking them up in bars. My own sense of the universe is rather different than that, and I believe there are all kinds of opportunities out there that are much much broader than the premises underlying OP's post. My guess is that wealth and confidence matter far more than a narrow age bracket; a good friend of mine, my age, whose wife left him is getting huge amounts of action from an insane number of hot women. He's decent looking and makes about $500K/year, so he can afford to jet off to Paris with cheekbones-du-jour once every couple of months. He's not even slighly creepy, and some of his action is from girls in their mid-twenties.

Defining optimum just as OP does, however, I have no reason to disagree with OP. But I think that's kind of a silly definition.

Wow. Those are some pretty limited horizons, there, OP.

i just know from experience that every date I outperform the girl by paying for it, carrying the conversation (free drinks/date for her) and put in the legwork. She just brings her looks and that is good enough. That is a major benefit in life, one that guys don't have. A guy can't be a nervous ditz with no money like girls I've recently been out with. Any girl I go out with..even if they are boring/nervous/weird I'll still bang them because of their looks. Which proves it's a benefit in life.

Seriously not trolling. It's just guys are easy I guess.

Because it's easier to be hot for a girl. Due to makeup, fashion (short/tight dresses), boobs/curves girls can easily become hotter easier. A guy is for the most part as is with the exception of adding muscle. And with heels women can make up for lack of height which is something guys can't do. They have loads of ways to supplement their attributes.

Plus guys in general are hornier and less selective. Since it's a numbers game for them they'll much easier date/hook up with a girl that is interested in them. If a guy is ugly, short, etc. he's going to have to get money. If a girl is ugly she can get into super good shape and that will pass along with makeup. A girl really just has to diet and exercise mainly. It's much easier to bridge the gap as a girl.

Another benefit of being a girl is the ability to wear a skirt in public without drawing ridicule. Being forced to wear pants all summer chafes my hide, both figuratively and literally.

Well now, that's the problem right there, son. You need higher quality girls. You also need to redefine what it means for a woman to be "hot".

For me a hot woman is average face and in good shape. I know for many guys the only rule they have for girls is just don't be fat and to work out.

Even if the girl's face is meh guys easily justify it with "she's got a nice body."

I don't know any guy that is disappointed with himself or is ridiculed for having sex with a girl with a good body. That is super easily attainable for any girl on the planet.

OP is a good example of why being a bit older is much better, you start to figure out most of the **** he thinks, is pretty ****ing stupid, and you are both happier and ironically better able to pull off the things he thinks are the pinnacle of existence. Its also sad that hes completely incapable of realizing it even tho practically everyone in the thread is pointing it out to him. So it really is one of those things you have to learn on your own. (and that you hopefully learn, bars are full of 35 year old guys just as stupid as they were at 25)

Im not hating on you in particular Sour, because its super common and lots of us were the same way. Its just funny is all. Im sure the people in this thread like howard who are 50 are laughing at how stupid people like me who are mid 30s think about the world.

It's more like looking back fondly.

Lol