I'm positive that I could sleep with a lot more girls if that was my attitude. Fossilkid is right in that if you are just trying to sleep with girls, are attractive/charismatic, and don't give a crap if you come off like a douche, you're going to get laid a lot more than others.

The same person would often just do well going to a bar/club to pick up girls though, since it takes a mentality where you don't care about coming across as an ass/creep in person.

For the rest of us, there might be some lessons to be learned. Since I'm trying to get in a relationship, I'm not super aggressive on trying to get laid right away... this might actually end up hurting me, since if I did sleep with a girl she might feel more of a connection to stick around and give it a shot. Obviously depends on the girl too. I'm not going out with girls that have "casual sex" in their looking for section.

I have been trying to escalate the process a bit lately just to compare results with a more passive approach.

I generally have a good feel for the women I contact and I don't really go after the ones I think are bangable within 2 dates. For starters, I wouldn't want sex before say date 4 if I thought there was any long term potential.

I'm not saying they bail on the date, I call them up 2 days after date 1 and try to plan something for a 2nd date, but I think it would come across as being really desperate if I ask them out for Thursday or Friday and they say they are doing X and X those days, and then I followup with asking about the next weekend or whatever.
I generally ask about a couple days and if I get the feeling of interest, but the unability to meet up those days I just say something along the lines of "okay, well let's keep in touch and make plans at a later date".
Some text conversations follow over the next couple of days that I initiate and then I don't really know what to do if I ask them out again for a certain day and they're busy or have already made plans with friends/whatever.

Any recommendations for places to go on a date in upper west side Manhattan? First date but I've known the girl for a while so I need more than the 15 min coffee date that's popular around here. Consider it a second date if that's your thing.

For food...

Kefi...better food.

Sunburnt Calf...better atmosphere.

Cava Wine Bar...best atmosphere.

Other stuff...

Museum of Natural History, especially the planetarium.

Your stories are not adding up, though. Because if makin maneys was truthful he was sleeping with these girls the first night and they were getting incredibly clingy. Thus their clinginess showed they were super into him and wanted to be with him.

The people in this thread are taking a more calm approach to get a serious girlfriend and are not succeeding.

Thus the carefree, don't give a s- attitude where you get laid early and often is the one that bags these girls. In my experience guys that bang a girl very soon are the ones that the girl gets interested in. This whole I want to find a nice girl thing is overrated. While you are taking her out on dates she's unavailable next one because she's hoping the makin maneys of the world are texting her to come over to have sex.

Great post

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I agree that the waiting to have sex approach is counter-productive. Good girls like sex too and if they're into a guy will often have sex on date 1 or 2. This doesn't mean that she now has no long-term relationship potential, it's normal. There's a big difference between that and a girl who is throwing herself at guys b/c she likes the attention and has self-image issues.

i think you're right about the lower quality ones having the highest number of sexual partners and the lowest having relatively few.

but everything else is pretty subjective.

there're tons of attractive, put together girls who'll have a large number of high quality partners before settling down and there're just as many attractive girls who know exactly what they want from an early age and won't put out until they feel like it's a good match. quality means different things to different people.

just like some ugly women will be too jaded about dating bother putting in an effort, and others take a yolo approach and just try to have as much fun as they can.

The bold is a big leak. Read the makin maneys thread. He bangs these girls on dates 1, 2, or sometimes 3. They then become super clingy or he has to cut them off. Notice that sex leads to the clinginess. If you keep waiting around and not wanting sex before date #4, well guess what? They are going out with a makin maneys guy and having sex with him. Then when you are going on date #2-4 they are unavailable and he has already claimed them. You are getting used for dinners and conversation. He is playing Wii bowling and banging. They are canceling dates with you because they want to come over for Wii bowling and banging again. They'd rather bang then sit on a dinner date with a guy they never had sexual contact with.

You are too much of a nice guy, girls want the charismatic player type that intrigues them.

While really nice, I'm not a "nice guy". I have my own attitude toward things and I never change my opinions to agree with someone I might like. I often disagree because it is more fun.

I always go for a kiss on date 1, a little longer on 2, tongue and stuff on 3. My problem is inbetween date communication. Women generally really like me when I'm around them.

I'm not being an *******, I really feel like that in between date stuff is basically meaningless. If a lot of stuff happens on the date the girl wants to see you again. if there is no making out you are done. if there is making out you are in decent shape after a first date. The more I do this the more I realize that once you have sex with a girl or get really close they feel like they are invested in you.

Okay, after a recent date we did the texting back and forth thing saying we had a great time. She said something along the lines of I really think we should hang out again and I responded with "oh we will". We've talked and texted and stuff since then, and then last Wednesday I finished our texts with a "let me know if you want to take a break from studying [she has naturopath midterms] and get together sometime", she said she would and wished me a goodnight. 6 days later, no communication

Why did you respond with "oh we will" and not "how about friday"

I mean most of the first dates I end up on there's just not going to be making out. Pretty much all of my first dates are on weekday evenings and last about 2 drinks (I'm not looking to get smashed 3 weeknights a week), or are weekend afternoon coffees. I don't often speak with the girls beforehand too much, and a lot of girls online are just plain shy on first dates.

I think it's very different if you've met someone at a bar or through a friend or something and much more likely that you can at least make out in that scenario... It's just not worth trying to escalate on an internet first date in my experience.

I'm totally in agreement that being more aggressive is an optimal play, but I think it's fine to save it for dates 2 or 3.

Personal experience. Online dates are a lot easier to escalate than pick up a girl in a bar dates.

On the online date the girl has already committed herself quite a lot by being on the site & responding to messages. By being on a dating site she's admitted that she's single, available & looking for a partner. By agreeing to meet you in person she's admitting you fall in her range (assuming you don't lie or have fake pictures). You can move much faster because of this.

If you don't kiss the girl at the end of the first date then I'd think it was a bust & move on. However I have literally gone in for a kiss on every first date that I haven't ended early because it was clear neither of us were into the other.

Other types of date the girl may be more cautious so YMMV.

So far I'm sticking with the following as the minimums.
1st - Kiss/make out
2nd - Heavy make out
3rd - Sex

Seems pretty natural. No doubt other guys could progress quicker but this seems fine for me. Helps to know what you're aiming for at the end of the date because you can keep an eye on the signs that would tell you she's into you enough to go for it. And of course sometimes she'll push it further anyway.

Also in the UK at least everybody knows 3rd date means sex. If it isn't covered off I think you're leaving a huge question unanswered in her mind as to your intentions/confidence.

I talked a lot with him in that thread, and one piece of advice he gave me that stuck out to me was "you need to dumb down your messages a bit, but luckily for me that's never been a problem". I think that applies to a lot of people on a poker forum full of cerebral introverts, and probably explains why he has an easier time relating to randoms on an online dating site than most 2+2ers. Like, when I read the messages he'd post that he sent to women I'd generally be horrified at the grammar/sentence structure, but I guess the girls he'd send them to were digging it - different target audiences, I guess?

I disagree with this too, though for completely different reasons than TommyTrash. I used to feel the same as you but some guys in the SL dating thread changed my mind and I think it's led to a healthier view of sex and relationships. I kind of have difficulty articulating why though...I dunno, why do you particularly want to wait?

This is a good post and I think you can make mistakes in being too "pushy" and "needy" by rushing sex, but a lot of the waiting type stuff can be counterproductive, even if you are looking for something serious. It all comes down to whether you are pushing towards sex as a means of desperation or with a lot of confidence. If you are confident and you aren't desperate, it will be very attractive, and if you are super pushy and desperate, it of course will be counter-productive. For guys who are a bit desperate, holding off somewhat might help them compared to pussyhounds like the guy you mention, only that they won't care as much if they aren't pushing for sex. But even then, it's a tight balance, because it removes a lot of the sexual attraction on the dates and that is a huge factor in getting your foot in the door.

Having a lot of different girls to choose from is the biggest factor IMO of having that aura of confidence and lack of desperation vs. "OMG, I CANT FIND ANY GIRLS THAT ARE RIGHT, THIS ONE *MUST* BE THE ONE, I BETTER NOT SCREW IT UP!!!!*

Compared to the pussyhound, they are going to be lagging a lot. And you have the ugly girls who would never be with a guy, except for the ones trolling at last call at a bar and want to take something home, anything. And they end up with the fat girl who is annoying, take her home, have sex with her, sober up, then never see her again, and she is back at it next weekend.

Obviously there are exceptions, but I would guess those trends exist. But there are also probably guys who are lower quality who have virtually no standards and are banging anything that moves.

Remember what BL said months ago? If you have sex with her early, she'll like you more because you "swept her off her feet"

I think whether you made out or not tends to be a good indicator of the success of a first date only if the date was on a weekend.

FWIW, most of the good relationships I've had have started out by having sex on exactly the second date.

Has anyone tried the "Crazy Blind Date" feature on OKC? Seems kind of dumb at first but if it actually works, ie the girl actually shows up, you could bypass the whole process of mass email, get girls to reply, then maneuver your way to a first date. Some of the scrambled pictures you can still tell if the girl is hot.

^^

I've added it to my phone but not actually used it. I would tread carefully though - I'd imagine most girls are lower quality. I mean, they have such a wide selection anyways if they are cute right? So there has to be low incentive. I'd imagine if you keep looking over a matter of months you can probably find a couple girls that look good in the scrambled pictures.

I want to wait a few dates to make sure the girl I'm having sex with is a decent person and to make sure that I want to have sex with them.

big,

Are you serious with that statement? You aren't ready for sex on a second date with a hot girl? Or even a first date?

I'm telling you...read makin maneys thread. If he is telling the truth girls became obsessed with him. You want them to become obsessed with you if you are going to find a girlfriend. If they are lukewarm or sort of like you that likely isn't enough when they are online and going on lots of dates.

wtf?