WELL???

1. eviljeff

next ranking will come out in one week ala samjjones

I wouldn't put it in.

If there is a partner in the firm who fancies himself a poker player, he is not going to want to hire someone who may steal his thunder. At the end of the day, first-year associates are a dime-a-dozen.

If the interviewer does not understand poker, they will tend to just think of you as a bit immature (spending a lot of time on games) or a degen.

Most of the people won't even care as they know you will not be having time for it, anyway. As for developing useful skills, you will find that there are much better ways of preparing yourself to be a good lawyer than playing poker. Most practicing lawyers know this.

I work at a big firm (probably the kind of jobs that you're interviewing for) and had poker in the "interests" section of my resume when I interviewed. Your ability to get a job is largely (almost entirely) dependent on your school rank and grades. If you're on Yale law review, you can be a murderer and get a job.

Well, to many people it might. But poker is pretty mainstream now. My only other options for my resume were to either make something up or to have a five year gap. I put it in there. My employers were interested and asked me about it and know pretty much nothing about poker. It doesn't HAVE to be a big deal.

I wouldn't put it in there if it weren't for the gap though. A college student who has no gaps doesn't need to stick it in there. That's pointless.

I really couldn't get away with lying or making something up because I'm mostly a lousy liar. I can't say I was investing or running my own website because I know nothing about doing either of those things.

Maybe I should clarify. I have a short 'Interests & Miscellaneous' section at the bottom of my resume. There are a few things that aren't expressed in the rest of the resume that I would like to point out. For instance:

Countries Worked: Brazil, Canada, Netherland Antilles, Ireland & US.

Or languages spoken, that's misc. as well.

leave it out....I would advise putting in professional Nintendo player though.

I say leave it out and ask if anyone has a good Resume template, I need one ASAP (today/tonight)

Thanks

I say include it, along with all your other potentially illegal activities.

Putting it in will increase your appeal for a smallish set of interviewers and will reduce your appeal to people you probably don't want to work for anyway. I've included a poker reference on my last two job shifts and it didn't hurt me one bit -- although my background was pretty much perfect for both jobs and they're much more senior positions than a 2L summer gig. Whoever said that school quality and grades are the only determiners here is almost perfectly correct -- rephrasing, if you're on the Yale Law Journal and can BS credibly without drooling or vomiting for a series of half-hour interviews, you could be a multiple murderer and get a biglaw job.

well there is some chance someone could see it as a positive. people who read billions of resumes will sometimes have their eye caught by 1 different/impressive thing

now I'm not a lawyer so I would go with the lawyers advice itt in this case, but in more of a general business/mgmt field having interesting/intellectual pursuits/hobbies can definitely be a positive. that may not be

2007-2010: Professional poker player

but it could be

Interests and Hobbies: Poker theory and application, Sabermetrics and Quantitative Sports Analysis

or something like that. I have seen those resumes and as someone who at least understands what those words mean, it caught my eye

Lawyers, for whatever reason, tend to be humorless douches during the hiring process. Unless it's like some wacky public interest charity firm run by 28 year olds or something, your typical hiring partner is the most miserable person in the world. He eats babies. All he's going to think when he sees that is either:

A: Gambling is a sin

B: This ******* is totally going to steal money from client trust funds

He's not going to be all "omg this guy must have stellar second level reasoning abilities, plus our firm relies HEAVILY on the ability to do arithmetic under time pressure! I hope he can start tomrrow!"

Edit to include:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcaVSTsYyOI#t=0m45s

i definitely wouldn't include poker in any capacity unless you are in full tilt commercials. however i dunno if having an interests section is standard for your profession but most poker players are into gin rummy, bridge, backgammon, chess, fantasy football, or some other strategy game(s). include those. if you aren't into any other strategy games then you probably are fairly degen.

As an aside, if anyone here has access to a good website with personal statements for law schools, or is willing to send me the one that "got them in", tonight, I'd appreciate it. I will not be plagiarizing and nobody other than me would ever, ever, under any circumstances see them.

Trying to figure out a way to fill out 2-3 pages of personal statement without including the way I made money for the past 5 years of my life is turning out significantly more difficult than I imagined. I have a big gap and without the work exp. it's really hard not to devolve in to "all my life..." generic crapdom.

If anyone has a spare moment to ship guidelines, I'd love a PM or email.

Tuq would say to leave it on, which means you should definitely leave it off.

The final answer to poker on resume, unless you're applying for a job at a casino (and even then I'm not sure it's good to have it on there), is to leave it off. To 99% of people its equivalent to saying you played craps or blackjack professionally. They're just going to think you have a gambling problem.

Leave it off and be prepared to be asked about your employment gap, altough you probably won't. You are interviewing for an entry-level job. They're not expecting people with 10 years of experience in another field nor are they expecting people to be already experienced in the law business. Do you really think partners compare applicants "previous employment" section for hours before deciding on wich candidate they'll hire ?

If you are top 5% at a good school, you could basically only write your ranking, gpa and the name of your school in 60 point font and get an interview/job.

true story!

EJ doesn't have much love for TTTs.

I've worked in gaming for the last 6 years now and it's defintely a good thing. My last 2 companies have looked having passion for what you're selling very positively

I've never posted to this forum but have been reading posts for awhile. Finally a post that made me sign up. I have a strong opinion on this question.

I'm in a big city and have been practicing for several years. I've had poker on my resume for 2 different jobs now, and honestly, it's only opened doors for me. Important to note that I do not have listed as a job, just as an interest along with others. Don't say you did it professionally on your resume.

If you are interviewing for a law firm job in a relatively big city, the people doing the majority of the interviewing are associates or junior partners (and they often make the decisions). These people see dozens of candidates who are B-O-R-I-N-G as all hell. Believe me, when I was at a firm, I was the head of the recruiting committee. Everyone was the same. It makes you want to tear your hair out doing 50+ interviews each interviewing season. But, poker sets you apart and can start a conversation. If the interviewer does not play they will gloss over it. It will not hurt you. But if they do play then you are in luck. You have an instant thing in common with the interviewer. And that can make the difference (though I hate to break it, but law school ranking and grades still matter the most).

If you go to a firm, believe me, there are people who play. I've been at 2 firms and they all had people who played - associates and partners. And it was a great way to meet people and have them remember you for more than some workaholic who can churn out discovery responses and bill a bunch of hours (which you will do - sorry).

I just left my firm to work for a company as legal counsel. And I listed it on the newsletter for new hires (and also on my resume). And I cannot tell you how many emails I've received from people, not talking about my past work experience or credentials, but about poker. I've been invited to join the game at our next conference. Seriously, it's like golf for the next generation.

Now here's the caveat. If you are not applying to a firm or live in Utah or something like that, then you probably want to leave it off. But I'd 100% put it on for a job interview for any reasonably sized firm in a reasonably sized city. And once you get the job you'll find it easier to meet people. I still have a home game with friends from the firm that I left years ago. Good luck!

Off topic, but in my experience (interviewing at a bunch of big firms and ending up at one), the hiring partners tend to be nicer/cooler than the average partner. Firms don't like to put miserable, socially awkward d-bags in front of interviewees.

I agree, though, with your ultimate point re: leaving poker off the resume.

The real answer is don't become a lawyer.

Put it in, and if questioned about it, go off on a 20-minute tangent about detailed poker strategy. Be very enthusiastic in your delivery, too.

The reason putting it in is a horrible idea when you don't have a gap to explain is simply that people cover their own butts. Even as someone who understands gambling and is sympathetic to what is unjustified grouping of professionals, recreational players, and degenerates into one group I still would never hire anyone who mentioned gambling on a resume unless I owned the business or was the vastly dominant partner.

Hiring someone who is classically qualified with nothing odd is safe. If the new hire works out what was on the resume is irrelevant. If on the other hand they implode and do crazy / illegal things then it will suddenly matter. Hire the guy the guy with the perfect resume and you are fine because really who could have seen it. Hire the guy who has a possible red flag and now it is your fault. Why the **** would I take a risk on some stranger?

That being said as was already mentioned the most important considerations are your grades, your school, and your physical appearance so all things that it is too late to change now. In smaller markets what people the year ahead of you thought of you is also important. As long as your resume is well proofread for errors I wouldn't worry about padding it with possibly questionable interests.

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm going to listen to the collective wisdom of OOT and take it off.

For those who asked, I am Canadian.

Oh and I get that school, grades, and looks/charm are really what matters (everyone tells us this), but when you are competing with a dozen other law students with the same grades from the same school every little bit counts.

I also think that in Canada, with few exceptions, the law school you attend makes little difference to your job prospects. We have some bad schools but it's not like the states where some are so terrible you wonder who was stupid enough to fork over 3 years of their life and 100k.

Lagtastic,
I think most lawyers under 30 find work. I know a couple of guys struggling to find articles, but they had abysmal grades and didn't get a summer job in second year. They are also the kind of guys who are really bad at first impressions. A lot of lawyers in my area (vancouver) tell me there is a serious shortage of lawyers.