Interested in Phoenix/Dblbarrel/et al take on what extreme to take this. Should I answer a seemingly innocuous question from a cop in a phone call out of the blue?

Should I be more suspicious or less suspicious? Am I in any danger here?

No I did not mean the opposite of what I said. Additionally, I do not mean the opposite of what I am saying right now. I am also not levelling you right now nor am I trolling. But I don't mind you suspecting any of those on this forum.

It is going to be hard to find many cases where people "shouldn't" have talked to the police because:

*It is a relatively rare occurance.
*When people get screwed by talking to the police, they frequently lose their internet access among other things.
*even if not convicted, people often don't want to discuss the time they were indicted and prosecuted.

That's what I meant.

But it does now occur to me that I have a good example--it's not mine, but someone I was friends with at the time who talked to the police:

Police come to the guy's apartment asking for him. They ask if he was at a particular club the night before. He asks why they want to know. They tell him a woman claims he punched her.

He immediately starts to deny it, and says they have the wrong idea--he never punched anybody. They reassure him they're not that judgemental and they hear these accusations all the time. The best thing for him to do is come down to the station and give his statement. Which he does.

They interrogated him for about three hours on camera, and I believe an ADA was there for most of it. They repeatedly commend him for talking with them and helping them sort this out. They make him tell his story repeatedly backward and forward and point out the inconsistencies. Whenever he gets flustered and says, "Well, maybe I should have a lawyer here?" They say, "Ok, you can do that, but then this opportunity we have here to make this all go away will cease. " aaaaaand then they start praising him for cooperating again then ask him to start from the beginning.

Over time, the specific incident changes like this;
"I didn't even shove her, some other guy shoved me"
"The other guy shoved me and I shoved back"
"When I shoved the guy"
"I shoved the guy"
"I shoved the guy, well she kind of jumped in the way"
"she kind of got shoved"
"I guess you could say I shoved her"
"like I said, shoved them, him and her, while I was holding my motorcycle helmet. "

And various details worked out the same way.

Aaaaaand yes, they were sort of an on again off again couple, after the interview started with " I know who she is. "

So they press charges and it went to trial. Very expensive defense attourney, something in the neighborhood of $30k. Entire case essentially boiled down to that tape, his " confessions" and "dishonesty" and the two accusers who claimed my friend had repeatedly bashed her in the head with his motorcycle helmet. The defense: if he really kicked the **** out of her as she claimed, how come she didn't have a single bruise or cut?

That arguement carried the day, but it seemed a very tenuous proposition. With the risk of actual jail time. He never would have even been charged if he hadn't talked to the police. There was no evidence that anything had even happened.

Not that he was the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he wasn't braindead either. Just a kid who knew nothing had really happened and if he told the truth everything would be fine. He said "hello" to an old girlfriend and her new guy shoved him--what a dick.

Obv we need a OOT thread discussing correct strategy for when the police bust you in an underground illegal brothel.

"why are you asking?"

He's completely correct. Your performance itt has been epic. Getting completely owned by the general made my day.

Oh my. This is a gem of gems.

If that is your assessment of what happened here please let me know what mall the firm you eventually work in is located so I can send you a fern.

I'm not talking to anyone claiming to be a cop or whatever else on the phone.

That being said cops can and will use anything they gain through phone conversation just an they will anything said during an interview.

Also they don't legally have to ID themselves as cops and the call is being recorded.

Being suspicious if the person is a cop or not isn't a bad thing but at this point he is asking if you were in Portland. What possible concerns would you have in confirming this?

Being implicated in a crime because my whereabouts matched the whereabouts of the criminal for whatever coincidental reason.

Wow Henry's embarrassing himself ITT.

So you think if you don't confirm you were in Portland the police will not be able to establish that you were in Portland?

If the police can establish I'm in Portland more power to them.

In our hypothetical you were in Portland. If they started asking about your specific movements or what you did while in Portland I can see starting to be concerned but at this point the question is were you in Portland. It is beyond baffling that you think confirming this can somehow be a problem.

No, it's cool. I have a huge inheritance coming so I am probably not going to use my law degree anyway. Just gonna hang out at my gf's work and post on the interwebs authoritatively about stuff I have no idea about.

Wow...you never cease to amaze me.

Do you have any idea how bad it looks to a jury when you co-operate to a point then withdraw from co-operating when tricky questions are asked?

What's so hard about saying to the Police "can i get your name and number please and I'll have my lawyer call you back shortly", then getting your lawyer to call them and have him/her tell them "my client is not going to answer any questions" and it's all over? If you're that desperate for cash, by no-name brands, but don't risk going to jail over a couple hundred bucks.

Henry just took the ole "Case Closed will have a business card with his picture on it" line.

Couple hundred bucks? Most ppl don't have a criminal defense attorney at hand. I think the lol ones that advertise on TV charge more than that and they're going to want more than 'I got a call from a cop asking if I was in Portland. Btw, I was in Portland', please call them and tell them I'm not going to answer that I was in Portland, k tx, checks in the mail.

HeeeYYYYYoooooo!!!!!

If you're ever in Portland, OR, you should visit The 24 Hour Church Of Elvis! which a quick search showed is still open but maybe you should call ahead.

It has no impact but assuming stuff like this did matter refusing to answer a general question like were you in a specific city looks a lot sketchier.

There is absolutely no reason to believe the police are investigating any crime. The much more likely scenario here is that the police are attempting to return property that he left behind. Second in order of probability would be some sort of card cloning investigation where he is actually the victim. A remote third would be that they want to ask him something in a witness capacity. That this is going to turn out to be a criminal investigation is very low and that it is going to be a criminal investigation where he is the suspect is immeasurably small.

Then there is the information that is being communicated -- presence in a city that he travelled to by plane, stayed in a hotel at the airport, and presumably ate at restaurants. There is no reason to deny that he was in Portland because he was and attempting to deny it is not going to impede anything. What it will do is impede his ability to get information. By answering yes he gives up absolutely nothing and he gains more information that will reveal why this police officer is asking about his trip. Once he has that information he can then assess if he wishes to keep talking or not but refusing to answer something meaningless because you suffer from some delusional paranoia is insane.

Solid line to take imo. Very really possibility I end up a Lionel Hutz/Saul Goodmanesque lawyer.

Most criminal defence lawyers have service available 24/7....you just have to google or look in the yellow pages. Many won't charge much, if anything, for that first simple phone call, it's barely worth opening a file and billing for, and they'd rather just get your business in the future.

The thing that really bothers (scares) me about "NEVER talk to cops" is what happens when you need their help? Its not even really that, because I know 99.9% of everyone would talk in those spots. More importantly, what happens when you need someone else to talk to cops so they can help you?

It seems 2+2's stance is never talk to cops in any serious scenario. However, that is a 2 way street, and means that no witness should EVER help you out when you are the victim of a crime.. If we shouldn't answer questions about a missing child in our neighborhood, then when your child is missing no one should help you out. When one of our neighbors house is robbed we shouldn't talk to cops, then when its our house we should expect the same thing..

I think you can see where I'm going with this. I mean the reason we are giving for not talking to cops is to protect yourself, right? At what point to we put our own safety on the line to help someone else? If you can answer that question (never right?), then if you think about it, that should be the exact point you should expect someone else to step up help you out.

Thinking a jury won't be suspicious if you go from co-operating to refusing to co-operate when questions get tricky is insane. I'm not going to reply to any of your posts because there is no point....you are just far too dumb to get it ever.

They will not be satisfied until you've memorized that vid and toe the party line.

IDK how some of these ppl get thru the day. Some of them have to be in positions of authority where their actions are of some consequence. Put them into this simple spot and they become paralyzed. I SAW A VIDEO ON YOUTUBE! MY BRAIN IS INSUFFICIENT IN MATTERS OF THIS NATURE!

FFS, ppl, this is not that hard. Do you know how many doofusses pass the bar?

The never talk to police rule applies when you may be suspected of having committed a crime....nothing to do with when you are a victim of or witness a crime, unless of course there is a possibility you may be suspected of having committed a crime.